A&S Interview: Joe Chappell
Flight Engineer for Air Force One.
- By Christopher Saccoccia
- Air & Space magazine, March 2010
Courtesy Joe Chappell
As a crew member on Air Force One from 1961 to 1980, Joe Chappell ensured the flight safety of U.S. presidents John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. Christopher Saccoccia interviewed Chappell last November.
Air & Space: What does a flight engineer do?
Chappell: I’m sure you’ve seen movies where there is a pilot, a co-pilot, and a flight engineer. Before we moved to jets and computers, a flight engineer was a guy who worked his ass off. I was always on transports, and we were the guys who kept everything running. When we arrived someplace, we were also responsible for the airplane being serviced, inspected, and being ready for the next departure. Those of us at National Airport [in Washington, D.C.] were licensed airplane and engine mechanics as well as being licensed flight engineers. Back in the old days, we flew with operators, navigators, flight engineers, pilots, but as things moved, we started eliminating operators and navigators. On modern airplanes, many of the engineer positions have been eliminated. The present Air Force One still carries the flight engineers, but most of [the work] has been computerized.
A & S: A recent TV presentation discussed the secrecy surrounding George Bush’s 2003 mission to visit the troops in Iraq for Thanksgiving. Have you had similar experiences?
Chappell: Many. Some we have made public, some not. When Nixon was president, Henry Kissinger met 17 times in France with the North Vietnamese, negotiating the cease-fire and peace agreement. We always needed a cover story: Kissinger was known as a ladies’ man. He would be seen at a social event with a cocktail Friday evening and he was thought to be shackin’ up with someone over the weekend, but he would really be with the North Vietnamese. And he had twice met with the Chinese secretly, behind the Iron Curtain, negotiating a presidential visit to open relations with the Chinese. No one knew anything about that until Nixon went to China.
A & S: Which President did you connect with the most?
Chappell: Johnson and I got along really well for some reason. He had many modifications he wanted done on the airplane and I would get them done. He tried to do a good job—he worked hard, he liked to run everything, wanted to get involved in small details. That was just his nature.
A & S: Tell me about November 22, 1963, in Dallas.
Chappell: The day of President Kennedy’s assassination. It was a warm day, bands were playing, and the president and first lady left in their open car. Doug Moody and I were standing out in front of number-two engine when Colonel Swiener runs out of the steps and hollers, “Hey Joe, we got to get ready to go!” We both thought there must be some sort of international issue—Vietnam was pretty hot. After I ordered a fuel truck, Swiener said, “Did I tell you the president has been shot?” He was picking it up from listening to the Secret Service.
A & S: Most Americans remember the Walter Cronkite broadcast. Were you able to see it?
Chappell: I saw the reaction of my fellow crew members. I had traveled with them for a long time, and I thought, Gee, if these guys are showing emotion, this has got to be bad. I heard about the assassination after Cronkite had made the broadcast.
A & S: You were aboard Air Force One when Lyndon Johnson was sworn in?
Chappell: Yes, when he came into the cockpit, he had told police not to delay Judge Hughes. I went outside and told a policeman I was waiting for Hughes. He said, “This is the judge now.” I saw a big black Buick coming up. The guy driving was wearing a Texas hat and a nice suit. I said, “Judge, will you come with me?” He said, “Just a minute.” I had assumed he was the judge, but he was the driver—the judge was in the back seat. I escorted Judge Sarah Hughes as she boarded the airplane. It was a very brief ceremony. I’m sure you’ve seen the picture; I was standing right there. [In that photo, often called the most famous ever taken aboard Air Force One, Chappell is behind Hughes, next to the photographer, and thus not visible.]
Comments (11)
I would like to get in contact with Joe Chappell. One of my best buddies, Gordon Judd Steely was the radio operator on Air Force one at that time. Gordon is no longer with us and I would like to inform Joe about Gordon in later years.
Joe, please contact me.
John Durant WWII, 9th AF
Posted by john durant on January 28,2010 | 01:54 AM
Joe Chappell's last name is erroneously given as "Brown", and the Air Force One pilot's name was not "Swiener" but Swindel. EDITORS' REPLY: The first error was ours (a formatting mistake); we apologize.
Posted by James M. Davis on January 29,2010 | 03:24 AM
I would like to contact Joe as we went on many Presidential together, Joe on A/F One and I on an old TWA Boeing 707-331B which Joe sometimes helped me keep in one piece!! We also provided a part for A/F One now and then. My wife was invited to go on A/F One and she will never forget it. So if at all possible would like to contact Joe and find out where a lot of the crew from A/F One are today.
Fred R Cooney, Goodyear AZ
Posted by Fred R. Cooney on January 30,2010 | 06:23 PM
Hi Joe
Hope you will contact me sometime soon. Left TWA in 1992 and now in Goodyear AZ E mail is westpac@aol.com
Posted by Fred R. Cooney on January 30,2010 | 06:47 PM
I would like to comment that my brother-in-law, Col. Joe Sofet
was the pilot of the backup plane (27000) carrying The Vice
President(Lyndon B. Johnson)to Dallas on that day.. Col. Sofet was one of three Air Force One pilots that flew President Kennedy and President
Johnson. The three were Col. Joseph J. Sofet. Col. "Swede" Hanson and of course, the chief pilot, Jim Swindel. The tail
number of President Kennedy's airplane was 26000. Col. Sofet was the last of the pilot crew. He passed away last year at age 90.
Submitted by:
Walter D. Felver
10 Hawk Schoolhouse Rd.
Bloomsbury, NJ 08804-2016
Posted by Walter D. Felver on January 31,2010 | 05:02 PM
Dear uncle Joe.......I will never forget the day you introduced me to President Nixon in Durham, NC on the ramp in front of number 26000. Love you, your niece Jackie
Posted by Jackie Price on March 6,2010 | 09:20 PM
Uncle Joe,
I still remember like it was yesterday the day you took me, mom and dad (Jim & Hattie) on a tour of Air Force One at Andrews. Summer of 1972. How many kids get that opportunity? I went back to school that fall and told my freinds and teachers I had been on Air Force One. None of them believed me. I'll never forget it. Thanks.
Bill Beasley
Posted by Bill Beasley on March 15,2010 | 02:00 PM
Hello Joe. I was on the ground crew from '72 thru '77. Joe Geiger was head of maintenance. Freeman Klier was C/C. I still recall flying all those hrs. after we first received 27000 in '72 to break it in. Flew over to the Azores and back one day. Flew to Spain, R.O.N. then back.
Have you heard anything from Ralph Albertazie?
Hope you are doing well, Joe. KEEP'EM FLYIN'
Tampa Bay area.
Posted by Thomas B. Druley, MSgt. USAF (Ret.) on April 4,2010 | 09:22 PM
In refrence to above comment, what does C/C mean? I'd like to know because Freeman Klier is my uncle.
Posted by Alison Farris on June 30,2010 | 01:26 PM
I quit being a 747 Flight Engineer this year. I have been very lucky to have flown on this machine for so long. I have 18,500 hours as a professional Flight Engineer over 10,000 on the 747.I hold a private pilots license and I have been lucky enough to fly the Airbus A380 simulator.
courtesy of my company. I can of course still fly today. I miss the fun of big jet flying and I believe the removal of the Flight Engineer remains a retrograde step despite the use of technology. Air Force one should always have a flight engineer it adds safety and provides a man with high levels of technical knowledge in the seat ready to deal with technical failures. Computers are not as good but they help make humans work betterthey do not replace them this is a myth for cost saving reasons.If I were president I would insist on a Flight Engineer on Air Force one regardless of the model of 747 introduced. The engineer only has to save one incident or accident- and we do at times- and his salary is paid for life.
Posted by Michael on November 16,2011 | 06:46 AM
Does anyone know anything about Colonel Lyle Thomas (deceased)? I'm told he commanded the Pacific Wing and Transport Group in Japan supporting Vietnam and far east operations and was selected as deputy commander for Engineering and Command Pilot for Pres. support wing flying Air Force One and the Jetstar during Pres. Johnson's Admin.
Posted by Alexus Gregory on January 6,2013 | 02:18 AM