At the B-17 Co-op
Like bomber crews on 100-plane raids, today’s B-17 owners find strength—and survival—in numbers.
- By Brendan McNally
- Air & Space magazine, March 2012
Aluminum Overcast was donated to the Experimental Aircraft Association after its owners found the restoration and maintenance costs too high. The EAA started touring with it in 1994.
Scott Slingsby
(Page 3 of 5)
In the mid-1980s, companies that had been providing fire-bombing services to the U.S. Forest Service began selling off their B-17s for newer aircraft. “All of a sudden, here are all these people with all these big-ass airplanes,” says Garcia. “They want to restore them. They want to have a good time with them and make money. Where do they go? They haven’t got a clue. Then they start to realize there is the triangle, us, sitting there with all this information. So they start coming to our meetings and we lure them into the group.”
Each year one of the owners hosts the B-17 Co-op meeting, usually at a hotel close to the airport where that bomber is berthed. The owners sit around a large table, while behind them, in chairs lining the walls, their assistants, operations chiefs, and mechanics eye one another silently. By now most of the support crew members know one another, but they are usually careful not to advertise it, since a certain level of distrust still exists among the groups.
Strength in Numbers
At a recent meeting in Fort Worth, hosted by Chuckie Hospers, the Texas Raiders team has decided to lend a damaged spare set of horizontal stabilizers to Ray Moore in South Carolina, who is building a B-17 practically from scratch. In return, Moore will fix the damaged set, then copy it and make a set for himself and one for another project. Helping Moore is in keeping with the new spirit of cooperation. Now, someone observes, if only Moore can figure out where to get a set of wings.
In a few months, some of the bombers will start on their national tours. They need to come to some agreement on their visitation schedules so that one doesn’t show up in a city only to find out another bomber just left. Everyone knows this is easier said than done. They just hope that if they don’t work it out as a group at the table, they might do it afterward by themselves at the bar.
It’s time to place another order for main-gear tires. They’ve got a specialty tire manufacturer in England with the molds for B-17 tires, which need replacing after 75 to 100 landings, and he’s ready to do another run. The more tires he makes, the lower the per-unit cost and the less it will cost to ship them. How many does everybody want? Then the subject turns to spark plugs. Do they all still have enough, or can they wait another year before putting in an order? They go back and forth and decide it can wait another year, at least.
What about brake expander tubes? They’re a key part of the B-17’s braking system, and by now much of the rubber has deteriorated. The company offering to make them won’t start tooling up unless the co-op comes up with $75,000 worth of orders—about 100 sets. So how many brake expander tubes does everyone want?
An Aluminum Overcast rep mentions how that team thought they had three spare sets that were still good, but when they slapped on one set, no sooner were they up in the air than it started leaking fluid. They were able to land and put in a new set—it’s holding fine, but it did reduce their complacency a tad.
Single Page « Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next »





Comments (13)
Last year I could make a flight on EAA's Aluminum Overcast B17G. As a pilot, I can say that it was the greatest flight I ever had as a passenger. A wonderful flying experience and also a way to remember how it was in the dark days of WW2.
As we say: "Keep 'em flying!"
Giancarlo Riolfo
Torino Italy
EAA and Warbirds of America member
Posted by Giancarlo Riolfo on January 29,2012 | 11:25 AM
I volunteer time to help Mike restore Desert Rat. I can tell you one thing about Mike. He has a passion for this plane that is just unbelievable. When he talks about it, his eyes light up. When someone comes to see the project, he drops what he is doing and will spend hours talking about the plane and showing people around. Mike and Chris spend a lot of time each week working to bring the plane back from the scrap heap it was in. Chris is in one of the photos in the magazine article where we were reassembling the tail wheel section of the aft Fuselage. Currently they have reassembled the aft end from Bulkhead 6 back to 11. You can check out our progress on Facebook, search for B-17e Desert Rat Restoration. Everyone who volunteers time to restore this plane puts their heart into it, we all want to see it fly once again after being chopped to pieces 70 years ago and left to rot. Mike may not be rich, but he has passion, and has put everything he has into getting this plane restored.
Posted by Todd on January 31,2012 | 01:10 PM
For about seven years now, I've been a volunteer at the Vintage Flying Museum in Fort Worth, and up until her departure last January, I had the honor and privilege of crewing and maintaining B-17G "Chuckie". Doc and Chuckie Hospers are true legends in the warbird community. For years they went at it virtually alone, restoring and operating their B-17 in the face of overwhelming challenges, with only a small band of enthusiastic volunteers to help out. After the Museum was formed, the family grew and things improved, but they still operated hand to mouth. VFM was "the little museum that could", operating a B-17 on a shoestring, and bringing history to as many people as possible. The B-17 is gone, but the Museum lives on, in a lasting tribute to the memory of Doc Hospers, without whom none of this would have been possible. I'm darned proud to be a member of the VFM crew. Doc and Chuckie, I can't thank you enough for allowing a regular guy like me to be part of the B-17 crew and part of your lives. It's truly been the best time of my life. Dream big, folks, because sometimes those dreams come true.
Posted by Dean Hemphill on January 31,2012 | 02:59 PM
A very enjoyable article. What I really liked seeing is that a co-op has been formed to share, swap and cooperate on materials and knowledge. I am an armchair vintage aircraft fan. I attend the vintage aircraft shows in my area and have an true appreciation for the hard work that these crews do to keep these war birds in the air. I have this appreciation because of what I spend my free time working on. I also volunteer in historic transportation preservation, but I do it with Trolleys. The Association of Railway Museums has a parts committee. Like the B-17 co-op, a meeting is held during the organizations Annual Conference to discuss parts issues, joint special orders and swapping or selling parts among member Museums. Communication continues year round via e-mail. A member museum will e-mail their inquiry to a moderator who distributes it to the e-mail list of museum contacts. Then recipients of these e-mails can respond back with their input on the matter. It is a system that has worked very well for many years. Finding parts for an old trolley car is sometimes just as difficult finding parts for a B-17. Good luck with the co-op and keep up the good work.
Steve Heister
Northern Ohio Railway Museum
Posted by Steven Heister on February 6,2012 | 12:56 PM
I have loved the Fort since I was a lad, and have been lucky enough to go aloft in two of them (Old 909 and Alumnium Overcast). I have also been in the former PB-1W now on display at the USAF Armament Museum at Eglin AFB, Florida. I am deeply grateful to the individuals and organizations that keep these birds aloft. Just how fragile the relationship with the machines can be was exhibited by the loss of Miss Liberty last summer, through no fault of the crew. As the old poster said, "keep 'em flying..."
Posted by C. Mark Sublette on February 6,2012 | 06:11 PM
I am a four year tour USAF Vet
Went in 4-4=53. Got out 4-3-57.
Went to Sheppard AFB Wichita Falls Tx.
Started A/C and Eng. Mech School, signed up for Flight School,After 6 Months, Got bumped on Phys.
Went back to Sheppard and finished A/E School. they kept me there, went to Instructor School. Spent the rest of my hitch teaching in the A/E School. Made Staff/Sgt 3 yrs 6 mo.
I have always loved The big birds. I got to Crank up, B-25, B26, C-119 Every week. Got to watch The B36 get fired up that was always A huge Turn-on.
I also watched them scrap out 50 B-29s. SOOO Much History just got Chopped up!!
Posted by Robert T Cook on February 22,2012 | 08:44 PM
Gentlemen; this was a wonderful article! I have 64 digitized pictures of the nose cone art and the crews that flew them. My greatest wish would be to see these connected with the families of those heroes who flew during WWII. My father-in-law supported the photo technical mission for pilots who flew from Italy. I've published an article to Reminisce magazine, and I've tried to communicate with Air and Space Magazine, and the Air Force reserves unit he served in until mandatory retirement. No leads on where to go from there.
Any tips you can give would be very appreciated.
My email is Jerry@moonfamily.com
Posted by Walter G. (Jerry) Moon on February 22,2012 | 11:07 PM
Great article about a great plane and the men that flew them. I have a friend who flew out of Africa, Italy & Germany [places like Memmingem and Ploesti]. Interviewed him for a video history project and then treated myself to a ride on Aluminum Overcast. Noticed a fellow handling a waist gun and, when he caught me watching, sheepishly apologized that his father [who had recently passed] was a waist gunner on a 17 loaned to the RAF. This was the son's tribute ride. That's why these birds must continue to fly. A huge thanks to those who make it possible.
Posted by Howard Kalt on February 23,2012 | 09:01 AM
As a retired ATR Pilot & Licened A & E Mech. this written presentation of the survival of the B 17 is excellent. I grew up in Beaumont, Texas age 9 through 12 during WWII, I remember when formations of 17's flew over day and night, the Pilots would rev up their engines saluting a friend or family on the ground of their fly over. I will never forget the sound of a round piston engine of which I have had the privledge of flying many. Our family lost one B 17 Captain, (Howard Robins), two Merchant Marine Captains ( Hugh Spence, Oswold Spence)in WWII, B 17 crew menber bail out over Germany (John Jackson, survived), B 29 'Enola Gay' Radar Operator (Joe Stiborik) on Enola Gay's only combact mission. The Boeing B-17 followers are thinning out rapidly, Congratulations on your enthusiasm in keeping this project and memories alive.
Posted by Bill England on February 23,2012 | 01:11 PM
I am a Flight Sim Pilot, and have a few B17s in the hangar.
I love flying it. The best is made by ACU Sim. To all of you still in operation: "KEEP THEM FLYING"
Phil
Posted by Phil Samson on March 5,2012 | 03:06 PM
About a month before her untimely and tragic death, I watched Liberty Belle fly directly over me as I was crossing the San Francisco / Oakland Bay Bridge, constructed only about 6 years before Liberty Belle. We were just approaching the WWII-era Pan American terminal on Treasure Island under the Bay Bridge. I will never forget the perfection of that confluence of WWII-era sensory inputs--aircraft, bridge, air terminal. Just to complete the magic of the moment, I had Big Band music playing on the radio. It was clearly proof that time travel is possible. I'm sure parts of Liberty Belle will find their way into other B-17s through the Co-Op.
Posted by Rick Friedling on July 23,2012 | 06:32 PM
How do I purchase pictures from the Smithsonian file of my B17 crew...it was the 8th AF 381st Bomb Group / 532nd Bomb Squadron that flew combat in 1944.
EDITORS' REPLY: Go to THIS WEBSITE.
Posted by Stan Smolen on September 8,2012 | 08:59 AM
Hi. My name is Janice Knepp and I live in Sarasota. Fl. My significant other was in Vietnam, as an Army Cav helicopter pilot. One of his dreams is to take a flight in a B-17. Do you happen to know if this is possible anywhere or have any information? Would love to arrange this for him!
Thank you so much!
Janice
Posted by Janice Knepp on January 26,2013 | 10:00 PM