Dressed in drone livery, QF-4s are targeted during weapons testing. The testing is done at two Air Force bases, Tyndall in Florida and Holloman in New Mexico. F-4s replaced converted F-106s as the military’s drone of choice. Also droned in their time: F-86 and F-100 fighters and F-102 interceptors. Dressed in drone livery, QF-4s are targeted during weapons testing. The testing is done at two Air Force bases, Tyndall in Florida and Holloman in New Mexico. F-4s replaced converted F-106s as the military’s drone of choice. Also droned in their time: F-86 and F-100 fighters and F-102 interceptors.
(USAF)

Where Have All the Phantoms Gone?

How a fighter-bomber-recon-attack superstar ended up as fodder for target practice.

  • By Ralph Wetterhahn
  • Air & Space Magazine, January 01, 2009

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    The F-4 Phantom II lives. But the life it leads today is an odd one.

    It still flies in other countries; in northern Iraq, for example, the Turks use it in combat with the Kurds. But in the United States, it leads a twilight existence. It’s a warplane, but it no longer fights. Its mission is weapons testing, but no pilot flies it. Mostly, you’ll find these F-4s either sitting in the desert or lying at the bottom of the sea.

    The F-4 entered service in 1960, flying for the U.S. Navy. After studying its potential for close air support, interdiction, and counter-air operations, the Air Force added the F-4 to its fleet in 1963. Eventually the Phantom ended up even in the U.S. Marine Corps’ inventory. In four decades of active service to the United States, the aircraft set 16 world performance records. It downed more adversaries (280 claimed victories) than any other U.S. fighter in the Vietnam War. Two decades later, it flew combat missions in Desert Storm.

    In 1996 the aircraft was retired from the U.S. fleet. But the venerable McDonnell design has one last mission to perform for the military: to go down in flames.

    Since 1991,  254 Phantoms have served as unpiloted flying targets for missile and gun tests conducted near Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida and Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. The use of F-4 drones (designated QF-4s) is expected to continue until 2014.

    When an airframe is needed for target duty, one is pulled from storage at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in the Arizona desert. The airframe is given refurbished engines and instruments, then sent to Mojave Airport in California. There, BAE Systems turns the aircraft into remote-controlled drones, installing radio antennas and modifying the flight controls, throttles, landing gear, and flaps.

    QF-4 production test pilot Bob Kay is responsible for testing the converted aircraft, then flying them from Mojave to Tyndall and Holloman. Kay has been captivated by the F-4 since the age of seven, when his father took him to an airshow. “I saw a Navy A-3 refueling two Phantoms as they flew over so low and with that noise,” he says. “That’s all I remember of that airshow, but I knew I wanted to fly that fighter.”

    I ask if he has any second thoughts about being part of a system that destroys an airplane he loves, an aviation legend.

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

    The F-4 Phantom II lives. But the life it leads today is an odd one.

    It still flies in other countries; in northern Iraq, for example, the Turks use it in combat with the Kurds. But in the United States, it leads a twilight existence. It’s a warplane, but it no longer fights. Its mission is weapons testing, but no pilot flies it. Mostly, you’ll find these F-4s either sitting in the desert or lying at the bottom of the sea.

    The F-4 entered service in 1960, flying for the U.S. Navy. After studying its potential for close air support, interdiction, and counter-air operations, the Air Force added the F-4 to its fleet in 1963. Eventually the Phantom ended up even in the U.S. Marine Corps’ inventory. In four decades of active service to the United States, the aircraft set 16 world performance records. It downed more adversaries (280 claimed victories) than any other U.S. fighter in the Vietnam War. Two decades later, it flew combat missions in Desert Storm.

    In 1996 the aircraft was retired from the U.S. fleet. But the venerable McDonnell design has one last mission to perform for the military: to go down in flames.

    Since 1991,  254 Phantoms have served as unpiloted flying targets for missile and gun tests conducted near Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida and Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. The use of F-4 drones (designated QF-4s) is expected to continue until 2014.

    When an airframe is needed for target duty, one is pulled from storage at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in the Arizona desert. The airframe is given refurbished engines and instruments, then sent to Mojave Airport in California. There, BAE Systems turns the aircraft into remote-controlled drones, installing radio antennas and modifying the flight controls, throttles, landing gear, and flaps.

    QF-4 production test pilot Bob Kay is responsible for testing the converted aircraft, then flying them from Mojave to Tyndall and Holloman. Kay has been captivated by the F-4 since the age of seven, when his father took him to an airshow. “I saw a Navy A-3 refueling two Phantoms as they flew over so low and with that noise,” he says. “That’s all I remember of that airshow, but I knew I wanted to fly that fighter.”

    I ask if he has any second thoughts about being part of a system that destroys an airplane he loves, an aviation legend.

    He thinks for a moment, then says, “What better way is there for a warrior to end its life than to go down in a blaze of glory?”


    The Phantom has been called  “double ugly,” “rhino,” “old smokey,” and monikers even less flattering. The design does have its share of ungainly bends and angles. The horizontal stabilizers droop 23.25 degrees. The outer wing sections tilt upward 12 degrees. When an engineer looks it over, the first thing that probably comes to mind is “stability and control problems.” A brutal example of that weakness occurred during a May 18, 1961 speed record attempt. While Navy test pilot Commander J.L. Felsman flew below 125 feet over a three-mile course, his F-4 experienced pitch damper failure. The resulting pilot-induced oscillation generated over 12 Gs. Both engines were ripped from the airframe and Felsman was killed. (A later attempt succeeded.)

    Control sensitivity varies widely. It takes full aft stick to raise the nose for takeoff, yet at certain fuel loadings and at speeds just above Mach 0.9 at low altitude, moving the stick only one inch can produce 6 Gs on the airframe. At above Mach 2, on the other hand, the shock wave that is created moves the center of lift so far aft that pulling the stick all the way back produces only about 2 Gs.

    With all its peculiarities and faults, legions have had love/hate relationships with the aircraft. “The F-4 is the last of the fighter pilot’s fighters,” says BAE’s Bob Kay. “You have to fly the F-4.” It has none of the bells and whistles of next-generation fighters. Instead of the multi-function flight displays found in modern fighters, the cockpit instruments are “steam gauges”—round dials with needles. It has an inertial navigation system, best described as cranky. There is no flight management system, no GPS, no Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS), and no “Bitching Betty” voice system to alert the pilot to hazards. You have to navigate, bomb, shoot missiles, fire the gun, look for problems, and evaluate every one of those actions instrument by instrument. For the pilot, this means a lot of time is spent head down, analyzing instrument data; in modern aircraft, on the other hand, much of the information is presented compactly, in head-up displays above the instrument panel.

    My affair with the Phantom began upon graduation from pilot training in 1964, when I landed a tour in the Air Force F-4C. Though the Navy and Marine Corps assigned radar operators to the “pit,” as we referred to the second seat, the Air Force thought it would be more effective to use the configuration for two pilots. Wrong. No true fighter pilot chooses to serve as

    copilot. The assignment was akin to a shotgun marriage. For two years I languished six feet behind my more experienced comrades, calling off altimeter readings as they bombed, strafed, and fired rockets in training exercises on the gunnery range. Backseaters had to beg, cajole, and whine for stick time, and when we got it, we found that every aspect of flying the F-4 from the rear cockpit was a nightmare. The meager instruments were placed haphazardly in a straight line across the panel. The useless clock and G-meter were located in the center. Why? Because they fit there! Instrument approaches gave you a migraine. And to spot the runway, you had to peer through a knothole on either side of the cockpit, which made landing from the pit an adventure, especially with a crosswind.

    Front-seaters were not always thrilled with the F-4 either. In 1972, during his second tour in Vietnam, U.S. Air Force Major Dan Cherry, now a retired brigadier general, flew 185 combat missions in the Phantom; today he recalls: “The F-4 cockpit was uncomfortable, the instruments were poorly arranged, crew coordination was a hassle, it was ugly, and it used fuel like nobody’s business.”

    Crews that flew the airplane for the Navy had their own share of problems. By 1966 the Rolling Thunder bombing campaign waged by the Navy and Air Force had really heated up. Large formations of fighter-bombers were striking targets in the Hanoi area daily. That year Commander Dick Adams’ squadron flew combat in F-4s off the carrier USS Franklin D. Roosevelt. Each Phantom launched from the Rosie’s short catapult with four 500-pound and four 1,000-pound bombs, plus an empty centerline tank, which was refueled during climbout. Before a carrier landing, Phantoms had to achieve a certain landing weight; landing heavy would overstress the arresting cables. For this carrier, the F-4 was a heavy aircraft, and as such could try an approach with fuel for only one or two attempts. On the 1966 cruise, one of the squadron jets on a landing attempt was waved off, and when the pilot ran out of fuel before completing a second pattern, the engines flamed out and the aircraft went deep-six. The crew survived.

    In March 1966, I was told that if I agreed to take a combat tour, I’d get the front seat. Are you kidding?  I made my first front-seat flight at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida. I still remember it: a gunnery mission. And oh, the visibility from the front

    chair! My landing was the smoothest of “grease jobs.” At that moment, the shotgun marriage turned into a love affair.

    After passing my checkout flight, I was stationed at Ubon Air Base in Thailand, a member of the 555th—“Triple Nickle”—Squadron in Colonel Robin Olds’ famed Eighth Wing.

    At Ubon, the F-4 was all things to all people. One squadron flew only at night, popping flares and dropping bombs. The other two squadrons flew both day and night, dive-bombing bridges, strafing ground targets, rocketing truck parks, and tangling with the ever-elusive MiGs over Hanoi.

    On October 11, 1966, I discovered how tough the Phantom was. An 85-mm round blew a four-foot section off my right engine, and the aircraft caught fire. Still, it held together through the 400 miles back to Ubon.

    By the end of 1966, the Phantom had revealed a host of shortcomings. Number one was the dismal record of missile hits against the North Vietnamese MiG-17s and MiG-21s. The AIM-7 radar-guided missile had a probability of kill below 10 percent. Richard Keyt, who flew F-4s for the 35th Tactical Fighter Squadron during the Vietnam War, recalls: “Our missiles were designed to work in a non-maneuvering environment—a non-turning, 1-G shot at the bomber target flying straight and level at high altitude.” The reality: “F-4s fired in high-G turns at small MiGs that were turning hard and pulling Gs.” To remedy the problem, the Air Force expanded its Weapons System Evaluation Program (WSEP) at Clark Air Base in the Philippines. Combat crews were given practice in firing missiles at towed radar-reflective targets.

    My backseater, First Lieutenant Jerry K. Sharp, and I took part in that exercise over the South China Sea in December 1966, scoring a hit. On January 2, 1967, we used the skills we had honed in that exercise when we merged with a flight of four MiG-21s that were turning hard to get at us. Sharp got a radar lock-on while under heavy Gs. Then I centered the steering dot, fired two AIM-7s, and watched as the second missile exploded and tore the tail section from the MiG in front of us.

    For other F-4 shortcomings, the military contracted out quick fixes. Modifications included the installation of Radar Homing and Warning (RHAW) gear—a cockpit system that alerted pilots when their aircraft was being tracked by anti-aircraft-artillery radars or surface-to-air-missile sites. Also added were radar jamming pods, plus chaff and flare dispensers used in combination to confuse tracking radars and to dupe radar-guided or heat-seeking missiles.

    The C variant had a number of design problems; one of the biggest was lack of a gun. The rules of engagement over Vietnam required that an adversary be identified visually before a missile could be fired at it. The MiGs were small, and to make the ID, shooters had to get close, often much less than the minimum distance that the AIM-7 radar-guided and AIM-9B heat-seeking missiles required to hit a target. At short range, “if you didn’t have a gun, you couldn’t shoot down anything,” says Rich­ard Keyt. The quick fix was the SUU-16/A gun pod with the M61A1 20-mm cannon.

    But without a lead-computing sight and with no tracer ammunition, F-4C pilots were denied the visual cues needed to correct aiming errors. Then, in 1967, the F-4D arrived. The D model introduced a lead-computing optical sight for use with the gun pod. In addition, the normal ammunition load now included tracers.

    On November 6, 1967, the gunfighter Phantom proved its worth. Captain Darrell “D” Simmonds and First Lieutenant George H. McKinney Jr. were escorting a flight of F-105s that came under attack by two MiG-17s. “We picked up the MiG-17s visually that were shooting at the Thuds [F-105s],” says Simmonds. “I was able to get in there and maneuvered for a perfect ‘uphill dart’ shot. I hit him, came alongside, and looked at him, and he looked at me, then ejected just before the plane hit the trees.” McKinney spotted another MiG-17 and Simmonds swung into a hard turn, accelerating as he lined up for the shot. “We were close, but I didn’t want to miss the opportunity,” the pilot remembers. “I fired and he blew up.” Later, Simmonds realized: “We had used just 497 rounds for the two kills—less than five seconds of firing.”

    The D model, however, was not a cure-all. “The guns on the D hung externally, on the centerline, and that created drag,” says Keyt. As for the missiles, the underperforming AIM-9B was abandoned for the Hughes AIM-4D Falcon. Designed to bring down strategic bombers, it required cooling of the seeker head prior to launch and needed a direct hit to score a kill. As pilots found out during what became known as the “Falcon Fiasco,” it came up short in a dogfight. Major James R. Chamberlain, a backseater stationed with the “Gunfighters”—the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing at Da Nang—notes, “The biggest problem with the AIM-4D was the limited amount of cooling time available [two minutes or less], which meant that the missile could not be pre-cooled for a quicker lock-on. And, once available liquid nitrogen was consumed, the missile was a blind, dead bullet—derisively called the ‘Hughes Arrow.’ ” After firing four of the missiles in combat without success, Robin Olds insisted the missiles cost him his fifth kill. He ordered them removed from his fleet.

    The Air Force soon trashed the AIM-4D. Newer Sidewinders were substituted. The military also recognized the benefits of an internal gun: The F-4E, introduced in 1967,  had an M-61A cannon mounted beneath a solid-state AN/APQ-120 radar, both inside the aircraft nose. During the time Richard Keyt’s 35th Tactical Fighter Squadron was based at Korat air base in Thailand,  five squadron aircrews were credited with MiG kills, and four used the internal gun.

    In 1973, during my third tour in Southeast Asia, I was assigned to the early E model. It was a dream to fly, not only because of the improvements made in gun and missile technology but also because the Air Force had realized the folly of putting two pilots in a fighter. After 1967, virtually all the GIBs—guys in back—were either navigators or radar intercept operators.

    The follow-on Es brought enhancements: A horizontal tailplane with a fixed inverted slat gave improved control at high angles of attack. Leading-edge slats on the wings enabled tighter turns at slow maneuvering speeds. A Northrop system called TISEO (target identification system, electro-optical) identified airborne targets.

    By the time my final tour was up, in 1974, a fleet of Phantom variants had safely taken me through a gauntlet of fire and flying experiences that would constitute the greatest adventures of my life.


    Three-plus decades later, I was once again in the company of Phantoms. This time the setting was the tarmac at Tyndall.

    The commander of the 82nd Aerial Target and Recovery Squadron, which conducts the drone shootdowns, is Lieutenant Colonel J.D. “Bare” Lee. A former F-16 pilot, Lee also has 1,500 hours in the Phantom. He still recalls the first time he took to the air in one. “I was shocked at how much more difficult it was to fly than I thought it would be,” he told me. “When I got home, I told my wife, ‘I think I just traded in a Porsche for a ’72 Cadillac.’ ”

    At any one time, a total of up to 80 F-4s are stationed at Tyndall and at Lee’s Holloman detachment in New Mexico. Twenty-one Phantoms sat on a ramp called the Swamp, awaiting movement to Death Row, the holding area for the soon-to-be targets.

    At mid-afternoon the drone mission briefing took place. The meeting included the drone “fliers,” Lockheed Martin personnel headed by pilot/controller Matt

    LaCourse. “Today’s mission is in support of WSEP, so there’ll be a lot of shooters out there,” said Lee. “WSEP” is the same Weapons System Evaluation Program I had participated in four decades earlier in Vietnam, when I’d practiced shooting at towed targets from F-4s. Now the F-4 was the target.

    LaCourse explained that four F-22 Raptors would each fire the latest AIM-120 air-to-air missile. The shooters and chase plane would take off from the main runway, while the drone used a strip three miles east.

    Most Phantoms wind up in the Gulf of Mexico within one to three missions. But not all: One, nicknamed “Christine,” after the Stephen King book and film about a crazed car with a mind of its own, had survived 10 missions. Another, “Son of Christine,” has come back from 12 sorties, the current record.

    Some drone missions are not meant to be shootdowns: The Phantom is loaded with missile jammers, and missiles without warheads are fired against the craft to test how well the jamming works. Other Phantoms are spruced up with Vietnam War-era camouflage and flown to airshows.

    One Phantom was saved by its former pilot. On April 16, 1972, Dan Cherry, flying an F-4D, had scored a victory over a North Vietnamese Mig-21. Thirty-two years later, during a trip with friends to the National Museum of the Air Force in Dayton, Ohio, Cherry encountered the aircraft he had flown that day. It was on display in the little town of Enon, outside Dayton.

    “In spite of her flat tires, weeds growing up all around, bird droppings everywhere, and faded gray paint, she was beautiful,” he recalls. “Walking around her and answering my friend’s questions made me realize how much I loved her and how much I owed her for taking such good care of me. Suddenly all those things that seemed like negatives before paled in comparison to the strong bond I felt at that moment.” Cherry took on the task of relocating the aircraft to the Aviation Heritage Park in Bowling Green, Kentucky, where it was restored and is now displayed. Then he decided to learn about the pilot of the MiG he had shot down. (Cherry’s story about meeting his former enemy in Vietnam will appear in a future issue of Air & Space/Smithsonian.)

    At Tyndall, the heat and humidity hit my face like a wet washcloth. The van driver took us from Death Row to the end of the runway, where F-4E tail number 73-1165 was positioned about 20 feet to the right of the runway centerline.

    I asked if I could approach the aircraft. My unit escort, Major Kevin Brackin, obtained permission. I got out of the van and walked across the concrete. When I reached the aircraft, I placed my hand on the radome. Because of the cloud cover, the nose was warm to the touch, not the usual egg-frying hot. The Phantom felt alive.

    I felt a wave of dread. Within minutes this magnificent machine might be in pieces at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

    A photo was taken, and I headed back to the van to listen to the radio chatter.

    Lee says it cost the Air Force $2.6 million to get the aircraft from the boneyard in Tucson to the runway at Tyndall. Is it worth it? “The F-4E has the built-in ability to launch flares and chaff and can carry an assortment of jamming pods, all of which put our latest weapon systems through their most rigorous tests,” says Lee. Had we taken the time to test our missiles properly in the early 1960s, the Vietnam air war might have turned out like the one over Baghdad: a clean sweep.

    We positioned ourselves behind the drone to await the launch order. Both engines were started. The canopy was closed, and the self-destruct bomb was armed for use in case the drone went out of control. Finally, the intake screens in front of the engine inlets were removed.

    Then came an ominous ground transmission: The “shooter aircraft have problems,” and a storm cell had slung cloud

    layers over a wide swath of sky. We sat and waited.

    Finally, after a 15-minute delay, the mission was ordered back on.

    The drone launch order was soon passed, and the operators got the Phantom rolling. LaCourse made a correction to get the aircraft precisely on centerline as both afterburners lit. Fifteen seconds later, I watched the pilotless aircraft take off.

    The F-4 proceeded out over the gulf. The first aircraft fired its missile. The ground controller monitoring the telemetry radioed the air crews: “No hit.”

    The Phantom flew on.

    My emotions tangled: I wanted the aircraft to survive, but I also wanted it to fulfill its intended mission.

    The four F-22 Raptors spread out. Each launched a missile. Over the radio we heard “Fox-four”—all shooters had fired.

    Then: “Splash.” A direct hit.

    Brackin and I walked back to the van and got in. Brackin was staring straight ahead. Then he turned to me. “So now you know,” he said, grinning. “It takes four Raptors to kill an F-4.” 

     


     
    Comments

    I still say the F-4 is one the best fighters we had!

    Posted by Stephen Elkin USN 1968-1972 on November 20,2008 | 12:20PM

    Nice job, Ralph! You captured the relationship spot on. Bill McCabe, Col, USAF (Ret) (F-4C GIB, 433rd TFS, 8th TFW, Ubon '67)

    Posted by Bill McCabe on November 21,2008 | 07:15AM

    Great article about a truly fabulous fighter aircraft, but noticed one glaring omission regarding the F-4's service. It is still in service with the Israeli Air Force, which has over 100 kills with the E model.

    Posted by Charles R Spigelman on November 21,2008 | 08:19PM

    This was a great story on the F4.I was wondering if Mr. Wetterhahn knew my brother, Bill Engle, flew the F4 (GIB)in the 555th in Vietnam. He happened to be in the formation when Capt Black got shot down. (At least that is what I was told.) He went on to fly the Bufs and was at various air commands. He retired as a bird Col in 1990, and died in '91.

    Posted by Richard on November 24,2008 | 12:44PM

    Let me clarify that I understood my brother was in one of the other planes in formation when Capt Black was shot down.

    Posted by Richard Engle on November 24,2008 | 01:06PM

    I share the sentiment, but my feelings are for the F-102A. I was flying the 'duece' when they went off of active duty with the Air Force. They went to the Guard, then became targets for the F-16s in Florida. :-(

    Posted by Gary L. McDowell on November 26,2008 | 11:36AM

    Excellent article Ralph. I was fortunate to have flown all models of the Air Force F-4 and the Navy B model I truly love the Phantom. I would give a bunch for one more flight. I ended up with 3500 hours in the F-4 and wish I had much more. In all that time I never had one engine problem. A truly remarkable fighter. Ross

    Posted by Ross Peeler on November 26,2008 | 12:56PM

    I sort of have a love-hate relationship with the Phantom. I was an Infantry pointman in Vietnam. I was the first one to walk down the jungle path to find the mines, boobytraps, snipers, machine gunners, and ambushes. Occasionally, it was dangerous, and I earned the 30 cents an hour the government paid me. During one battle I had a North Vietnamese soldier spend a good deal of time trying to kill me with his machine gun. He did kill another pointman, who then spent an hour dying next to me. An F-4 pilot - trying to kill that machine gunner hit me with one of the expended 20 mm shell casing he fired. That may not sound like much, but they weigh the better part of a pound, are traveling at about 200 MPH, and are almost red hot. They really hurt when they hit! On his next pass, he splashed napalm on me. That made me forget about the other injury. When I assaulted the machine gun position a few minutes later, I discovered that the F-4 pilot had killed the machine gunner. (Either that, or the North Vietnamese had been storing a lot of raw steaks in the bunker.) That's the basis of my love-hate relationship. I really like that the Phantom pilot killed the bastard, but I would have liked him a lot more if I hadn't been on the receiving end of part of his ordinance. I later was in charge of the production control effort for the AIM-9L Sidewinder missile, which was infinitely better than those AIM-9D antiques!

    Posted by Bob Leahy on November 26,2008 | 02:33PM

    Surely would have liked to read some stories from the Naval Aviators/RIO's. After all, it was first and foremost a Navy aircraft. One of the more exciting events that happened to me was a double-engine flame out. Very interesting to say the least. I was Randy Cunningham's first RIO before he and Driscoll got their five MiG kills. L. Batterman USN 1967-1972 VF-96 1969-1971

    Posted by Lynn Batterman on November 27,2008 | 09:52AM

    I WAS THE "GIB" IN THE BACKSEAT OF BLUE ANGEL #3 WITH ERNIE CHRISTENSEN AT THE CONTROLS. THE ONLY AIRCRAFT THE BLUES EVER FLEW WITH "CREW CHIEFS" IN THE "PIT". GREAT STORY OF THE AIRCRAFT. AS A RETIRED UAL 747-400 CAPT. AND FAA CHECK AIRMAN, IF I HAD KNOWN THEN WHAT YOU SPEAK OF NOW I WOULD HAVE BEEN SCARED. BUT AT THE TIME AT AGE 24 I NEVER GOT SCARED! WE THOUGHT THE F4J WAS A TERRIFIC PLANE BUT DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE FLYING DIFFICULTIES, AND THE "BLUES" MADE IT LOOK EASY. NOTHING LIKE HAVING 6 F4'S WITH 12 J79'S IN AFTERBURNER COMING OVER THE CROWD TO GET THEIR ATTENTION!

    Posted by DAVE KENT on November 27,2008 | 10:15AM

    I was a member of the 435th (former 4th TFS at Eglin) when Maj Simmonds had his twin killing. We were the first "D" model unit in SEA.

    Posted by FCS on November 27,2008 | 07:35PM

    Nice writ up of a great aircraft, which still has a mission in many foreign Countries, some plan to fly the Phantom past the year 2020. I have spent my career in the Air Force and at GE Aviation insuring the Engines can continue to operate at the same high reliability rate it has enjoyed since it's early years. All current aircraft engines are a derivitive in air flow design based on the J79's variable compressor vane design whicj was promoted back in the 1950's by Mr. Neumann, a GE Engineer/ Manager.

    Posted by Mike Solon - AKA J79 Engine on November 28,2008 | 07:08AM

    I was an Aircraft Electricial Repairman working on Hueys and whatever crossed the flightline at Sheppard AFB in Texas. Like most young Airmen I was waiting on orders to wisk me away to Vietnam or Thailand. Things were getting serious for the US in '66/67. So yes, I was surprised when some kindly gray haired matron took pity on a poor Texas boy. I was assigned to the 36th TFW in Bitburg Germany. I fell in love with the Phantom (F4D) at first sight. That was in 1968. Still think of it with a quiet pride even now. Fastest, meanest, true blue, get what you put into aircraft. Long cold hours, many TCTO's, tight spaces, bird strikes, gear troubles, generator/csd troubles and all. I loved working on the D model... Years and years later the Texas ANG was still flying them. Living only a few miles from a base I could tell from the Banshee wail which A/C were flying. Still get that slight chill at the sound I remembered so well. The VFW hall a few miles away received a D model for display. Passing by I was sad, shocked and pleased to see an old friend I had spent many long hours with.

    Posted by John Calley on November 28,2008 | 07:49PM

    The relationship between the pilot and his plane is expressed very well in this article, as is the history of the F-4. Good job on this one!

    Posted by C/A1C Alexander Riehl, CAP on November 29,2008 | 06:35AM

    Your article hit home. I logged over 3000 hours (front and back) in the Phantom while stationed at MacDill, Eglin, Korat, Torrejon, Kunsan, George, and Clark. I had nothing to compare her to, so I was always overjoyed to be strapped in. Like you said, she wasn't considered pretty or sleek (beauty's in the eye of the beholder)and I even remember some F-100 jocks refusing to transition because of the two seats, but she was a war horse. And she had the strength and mass to bring you home despite battle damage. Col (Ret) John Allevato

    Posted by Col (Ret) John Allevato on November 30,2008 | 06:02AM

    I remember the change from the AIM-4D to the AIM-9 well. In Udorn, Thailand, civilians did the re-wiring, but I actually had to borrow the tech-reps McDonnell wiring diagrams because the USAF had deleted the pages from the F4-D tech order

    Posted by Ron Collins on November 30,2008 | 11:52PM

    Ralph, My friend, you have done it again. Excellent!! Semper Fidelis, Crow VMFA-122, VMFA-115 1967, 68

    Posted by Jack McEncroe on December 1,2008 | 06:31AM

    Yes, to some they were ugly, but not to those of us who maintained them, even though we cursed, cajoled begged and made deals with them as we fixed the quirky bas....s. But don't ever think we didn't love that airplane. then at Udorn in 68 and 69 and even today they remain a "beautiful" airplane. she will forever fly the sunlit skies if only in our memories.

    Posted by rick dugas on December 2,2008 | 05:06AM

    Ralph; Article well done; thanks for writing a very good history on the F4 Phantom, the best aircraft the cold war ever saw, powered by the most maintainable and highest reliable engines ever built, the GE J79's. All modern engines owe their basic compressor air flow design to the GE J79 engineering group managed by Mr. Neumann. The current operators fly under the name of "J79 TIGERS" and some will fly beyond 2025. Long Live the Phantom and the J79 Engines who power her.

    Posted by Mike Solon - AKA J79 Engine on December 2,2008 | 05:52AM

    Excellent Article. The first three fighters I flew in the USAF have been used as drones; F-102, F-106, and F-4. I hope the fourth, the F-15, does not face a similar fate. Although, Ralph sheds a different light on this valuable Air Force mission aptly performed by "Double Ugly".

    Posted by Stan Welch, LTC (Ret), USAF on December 2,2008 | 02:15PM

    I have always been proud of my time on the Phantom and even more proud of the community that flew and fixed them. Bill Crean c/c 68-0428,68-0420,69-7560.

    Posted by Bill Crean on December 2,2008 | 06:26PM

    This article brings back many fond memories of a grand old aircraft.I worked on Navy models F4B, N, J & S, from 1973 through 1983, before they were replaced by the F14 Tomcat. As far as I'm concerned, the F14 couldn't hold a candle to the venerable F4. They may be "Old Iron", but they will will always have a special place in this retired Navy Chief's heart. To borrow a qoute from Shakespear's Hamlet, "Alas poor Phantom, I knew you well".

    Posted by Jim Baird on December 3,2008 | 03:20PM

    Sadly, there's no comments about the QF4s from China Lake. We recently lost Cdr. Harlan Reep, USN Ret. (The Grim Reaper)to natural causes (Nov.'08) who was one of the best F4 drivers known to man and a top drone pilot. We miss him and the '4's...smokey joe's we called 'em. They've a great history here at China Lake. Cdr. Dick Wright still makes it to the Commissary and he too has a great record of being an F4 driver. His picture hangs in the hall of the Flight Test Hall at Edwards AFB. We began the drone programme here many years ago...T-33s and such. Ahhhh, I miss that time as well. One quick story: Wright's son is/was an AF pilot, came to China Lake, got a ride in the back seat of an F4 from 'Dad' and upon landing, could barely walk...was quite green about the gills and ah...well, we'll see you at the Barefoot Bar and I'll tell you the rest of the stories!!!

    Posted by Pheadar O Tyrrell on December 4,2008 | 09:57PM

    Worked on RF's at Mtn Home, F4 D's with the 13tfs at Udorn, and E models at Homestead. Saw them take a real beating and come home. What else can be said?

    Posted by Vilos Mullins, ex-Ssgt on December 5,2008 | 03:58AM

    I was employed at McDonnell Aircraft Corp. as a data reduction technician when the F4H-1 prototype made its first flight. A bunch of us climbed to the very top of the old Low-Speed Wind Tunnel building where we were able to see the takeoff and subsequent landing over on Lambert Field.

    Posted by Virgil H. Soule on December 6,2008 | 11:17AM

    In the Air and Space Magazine there is a picture, on page 32, of an F-4B(?) on an aircraft carriar deck. The picture is captioned, "Operating from the USS Constellation (opposite, below) during the Vietnam War, the Marines used Phantoms as tactical recon craft (RF-4Bs)." The other aircraft in the picture (launching from a catapult) is an FA-18A Hornet which didn't go operational until January 1983 -- long after Vietnam. Maybe a different war? EDITOR'S REPLY: You're right. I introduced that error; it was not the author's.

    Posted by MSgt. Otho E. Fogwell, USAF, Ret. on December 6,2008 | 02:20PM

    There was a P-38L at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, so I rode my motorcycle over to take a look at it. Very nice. While looking over the P-38, I heard this strange, piercing jet engine sound. It was the wail of a Phantom! An RF-4 Phantom from Idaho National Guard landed at Boeing Field, and taxied in near the Museum! I also got to see it take off. Someday, if my grandkid gets interested in airplanes, he will be able to take his kid to see that same P-38. But I don't know how they will ever be able to see and hear what I experienced that day. Phantoms Phorever! Seeya ATB

    Posted by Alan T. Butler on December 6,2008 | 07:23PM

    Great article! As an AF pilot, I never had the chance to fly an F-4, but I sure enjoyed watching them from other aircraft. Beautiful. Sitting at number one waiting for clearance at Luke AFB one day, I had a front row seat as an F-4E took the approach end barrier (with it's tailhook). Don't see an AF bird do that too often, then taxi away after being unhooked! In later years, I have also provided video cameras to China Lake for some of their QF-4 Drones. That was fun also!

    Posted by Larry Klementowski on December 9,2008 | 10:47AM

    We, the Cowboys, VMFA-112, did some pretty interesting testing in 1988-1990, cloaking ourselves from the AIM-9Ls, and therefore, all of the rest of the "heatseekers." ...still got the video from the AIM-9M/L shooters who couldn't keep a lock. It took a while to get it going, but after getting a thumbs up from NavAir and the MAG-41 CO, "Thunder," we began the magic. Yes, there were many naysayers, but overall, the Cowboys, once again, supported the unlikely and did the impossible. We did it the "Cowboy" way. Thanks! A documentary about that episode in the F-4 Phantom's intriguing life is in pre-prpduction. Yes, the theory was proved! The Cowboys celebrated the Marine Corps Birthday this year (2008) at the Tap In Bar n' Grill in Grapevine, TX where we recollected stories about that. Semper Fi Julian "Hulio" Vazquez, LtCol USMC (Ret) www.insidetheindustry.tv

    Posted by Julian "Hulio" Vazquez, LtCol USMC (Ret) on December 9,2008 | 11:39AM

    I first saw the magnificent F-4C at McDill AFB in Tampa, Fl. at the age of 7. My father was training in the F-4 as he had orders to go to SEA. I remember seeing two of them land together and seeing the chutes deployed to slow them down...WOW! My dad went off to UBON, RATAFB later that year and took part in Operation Bolo (Rambler 4)and downed a Mig-21 and had a 'probable' Mig 21 killon that famous mission. He later downed a Mig-17 flying the F-4C. Years later we were stationed at Holloman and my dad was the DO. I could really appreciate the F-4 as a 12-year-old compared to a 7-year-old. Living on a base with 94 F-4's was dream for a young fighter pilot's son. My dad made it special, too, and allowed me to see his squadron off for Crested Cap and let me sit in on the briefing. I was truly in awe and will never forget that special day in 1971. It saddens me to see such a reliable and magnificent war bird relenquished to flying target practice for today's modern military, but if it's current duty benefits our military and our country's security, then so be it. Te F-4's place in history is secured for eternity and I am honored to have known of her and the brave and talented pilots that flew her!

    Posted by Neal Combies on December 9,2008 | 09:23PM

    I proudly worked on my three Phantoms at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, located in Woodbridge, Suffolk, England, past home of the 81st T.F.W, 91st T.F.S "Blue Streaks" (77-79). I thoroughly enjoyed my time at "Cripple Creek", working in the soggy weather of England, putting Phantoms in the air and nursing them back to health on the ground. The friendships I made will last a lifetime. You're article brings back a lot of fond memories. Mahalo for the trip down memory lane! Da Riddler Baker Area Blue Streaker c/c 66-6629, 66-6578, & 65-6578

    Posted by E.W. "Bill" Riddle a.k.a Da Riddler on December 11,2008 | 11:06AM

    I remember that whenever you saw a trail of black smoke in the sky 20 miles away, it was either a Boeing 727 or an F-4. Both wonderful birds but the F-4 is still amazing. Like many of you I pray we keep a good number of F-4s available for air shows, displays and memorials to all the American heroes who flew them. I am also trying to find a photo that I think was on the cover of Parade magazine one Sunday, probably 40 years ago. It was a front view of an F-4 and the tarmac was literally covered with a well laid out spread of all the weapons and attachments that could be carried by the aircraft. It was an incredible display that would have dwarfed a Ted Nugent garage sale. Regards to all and God bless every American veteran.

    Posted by Scott Blalock on December 11,2008 | 01:40PM

    Forty two years later I still remember going up the ladder at Davis Monthan and strapping in for my first ride in that magnificant bird. I knew I'd 'found a home.' In December of '66 I stopped a SAM about 5 miles north of Hanoi. I took a direct hit that blew the airplane completely in two behind the trailing edge of the wing. When I got out and got a chute she was immediately below me in a flat spin going down and shedding parts. She was a tough old bird and I know if I'd been riding in anything else that day I wouldn't be writting this story. Phantoms Forever. Happy Trails, Bud Flesher

    Posted by Bud Flesher on December 11,2008 | 07:50PM

    Well written article and appreciate more words about the F-4 of old than on the "above and beyond" missions they go on now. I've got 2.5K hours as a Marine Radar Intercept Officer (not "operator," as written) so my F-4 stick-time is limited to the 20 hr I have in the Collings Foundation F-4D. I can say with certainty that the F-4D with full internal fuel and full wing tanks does not need full aft stick to take off! On my first rear cockpit take-off, with a lot less than full aft stick deflection, the nose came up and continued to rise rather quickly and I can still hear BG Steve Ritchie "encouraging" me to get the nose down! On a carrier launch, full aft stick would get you from horizontal to near vertical in a blink, particularly during light-weight carrier quals. Also, true there wasn't much G available at mach 2 but to get that speed, we flew at 50K feet where mach 2 was only a few hundred knots indicated airspeed so not many "Bernoullis" up there with which to maneuver...and at mach 2 who wants to maneuver and bleed all that hard earned airspeed?

    Posted by Bill (B-Bop) Bowers on December 11,2008 | 09:45PM

    Towards the end of Vietnam I was stationed at NAS Miramar, assigned to a Composite Squadron of F-8 Crusaders and A-4 Skyhawks. There were still a few F-8 squadrons there, but, everything else was F-4 Phantoms. 100s of 'em. To me they were never ugly, in fact, to this day I think they are incredibly cool with their upturned wingtips and downturned elevons (I hope thats correct terminology!) But what I liked the most about them was that eerie 'howl' they would make as they approached... even when taxiing. I'd be in the fuel pits with my birds and the F-4s would roll by and they'd just put the fear of God in you... and they were on MY side! Just imagine how the enemy felt! They will forever be one of my all time favorite birds. They were just big, bad and awesome!

    Posted by AT3 Cord 'Cam' Cameron, USN 1970-74 VC-7 on December 13,2008 | 02:38PM

    I was ships company AIMD,ADJ-5,on the Connie, 1968-1972. Loved the J-79-8 in the F4's and the A-5 vig's had the J79-10. I remember the 4's coming back with small arms damage and still landing on the deck in one piece, it is one tough plane. Most pilots didn't even know they'd taken a hit or two. Take a piece of welding wire thru the bullet hole to see where it went if it didn't hit anything on it's way out the holes were patched, and back on the deck. At the time we only had J and B mod's of them. Swap out the bomb racks for a couple of 20mm cannons made them look mean. Saddans my heart when I see one used of target practice. Great war bird.

    Posted by Les Georgi on December 13,2008 | 02:49PM

    What other aircraft could possibly generate this outpouring of comment? The Phantom II is the first fighter aircraft to have a 50 year service life. As a small child, my father would take me to Miramar NAS and sit me in the cockpit of the still new F-4's and I was smitten with a lifelong love of ANYTHING having to do with aviation, but even more so with the Phantom.

    Posted by John A Hays on December 26,2008 | 02:08AM

    So sad to see a great war bird used for target practice. First saw this bird when she was used as a Thunderbird. As one pilot said, she may not be very pretty, but she was loud. Super war bird.......

    Posted by Wil Moore on December 31,2008 | 09:53PM

    The Phantom F-4. Certainly missed! But every one has neglected to mention the finest airshows ever flown by the US Air Force Thunderbirds! Does anyone recall the sights and sounds of those eight J-79 afterburners operating in unison!? I do... The Thunderbirds flew their show over the Old City of San Juan, Puerto Rico (USA) for many years, using as hardware the F-100, the F-4E and T-38s. I strongly feel that the F-4E shows were the finest ever, because they did put "the fear of God" into you. The current F-16 squadron sounds like a glorified posse of high-performance vacuum cleaners. Of course the F-16 handles orders-of-magnitude better at show speeds and has superior maneuverability, but when America needed to remind friend and foe of its technological and military prowess, the F-4 was (and shall remain) simply peerless. (No wonder the Blue Angels flew Phantoms too!)

    Posted by Prof. Rafael E. (Ricky) Irizarry on January 1,2009 | 07:12AM

    I worked on F-4's while in the AF between '66 and '69. From MacDill to Holmstead, from McConnell to Ubon Thailand this plane was the technology of the time. Col.Robin Olds and his colleague Chapee James were Aces with the 8th Tactical Fighter Squadron there at Ubon. It is quite amazing that you can develop such an affectionate relationship with a supersonic fighter jet with a bulbous nose. We loved this aircraft, camo and all.

    Posted by Archangel on January 2,2009 | 03:06AM

    Great Magazine

    Posted by Ronnie on January 6,2009 | 07:07PM

    This is a very interesting article about the F-4 and what it has done. You mentioned the 'SAGEBURNER' problems. Missing is the problems encountered with the 'TOP FLIGHT' program. Oct 21,1959 test pilot Gerald "Zeke" Huelsbeck was killed. Problems with aircraft structure, causing control lost at over 98,000 feet. This caused a change in ejection systems to the F-4. note: I found a good writeup of this altitude try in a book by Robt. F. Dorr Osprey air combat "McDonnell-Douglas F-4 PHANTOM II" page 27/28 your magazine is very good and enjoyable.

    Posted by Thomas C. Voigt on January 8,2009 | 06:55PM

    As a crew chief I was disappointed when I found out that my SEA tour assigment to Ubon and the 8th TAC FTG Wing in 1971 would be on B-57's and not Phantoms. But the B-57 squadron (13th) was deactivated before my tour was over and I was eventually re-assigned to Korat and wound up in the 469th TFS with F-4E's to finish out my tour. I'm proud that I got to spend that time with a lot of great maintainers supporting the Phantoms and their aircrews. There was nothing like seeing a fully laden Phantom throttle up and roll out of the revetment and then thunder down the runway. I remember one Phamtom pilot telling me that he felt like the meanest SOB on the block every time he pushed the throttles forward. Ken Watterson Ubon / Korat 1971-72 USAF 1969 - 73

    Posted by Ken Watterson on January 9,2009 | 05:25PM

    The flight surgeon said "Lieutenant, if God wanted you to fly, He'd given you wings. Now get out of here." A senior officer gave me another choice, RIO in the F-4. I wanted to fly. The back seat was my only option. 2,000 hours, 267 combat missions, 129 carrier landings (USS NIMITZ)later, I'd make the same choice. I saw the perfect, burning blue and the curviture of the earth from 80,000 feet in my full pressure suit when both THUNDERBOLT compressors stalled. Ike Isaacson and I faced down an SA-2 with his plu-perfect Split S in our BLACK KNIGHT F-4 near the Rock Pile. Tom Kennan and I WX Bingoed our BLACK KNIGHT F-4 to UBON from Chu Lai on the afternoon when Robin Olds and his Wolf Pack swaggered (rightfully so) into the O Club bar. Even a cold cat from NIMITZ couldn't sink our SHAMROCK F-4 when Clay Stillings pushed the Clear-It-Off button, while passing below the Dirty Shirt Mess.

    Posted by Larry Klipp (Klipper) on January 12,2009 | 09:39AM

    Great article. With over 3200 hours as a RIO in the back seat of F-4J, N, S, E, and RF models (and another 1000 hours in the F/A-18D as well), and multiple flights in just about every two seat tactical jet in the USMC, USN and USAF inventory during the 70s and 80s, I can defintely attest to the fact that there was NOTHING flying that commanded the awe, respect and fear that the mighty Phantom earned. A jack of all trades, master of none, and the love of my flying career - Phantoms Forever!

    Posted by Bull Pratt on January 12,2009 | 12:52PM

    I flew the RF-4C for nearly a decade and loved ever minute that my butt was strapped to the seat of the Phantom. After a tour in Vietnam and 200 combat missions I spent the rest of my Air Force career as an IP at Bergstorm where I "upgraded" pilots of B-52s, F-106s, T-38s and others to become combat ready in the Recce F-4. The F-4 made this job easy because is was a very honest, easy to land, and reliable aircraft. What I wouldn't give for the chance to fly a couple more hours in the double ugly.

    Posted by Les Carlton on January 12,2009 | 03:16PM

    Getting back with Members of the 13thTFS and 612th TFS from Udorn 1970-1971 and 1971-1975 respectively, lots of memories from those days. Spent 20 years in the F-4, as Hemingway said your first fighter will always be the love of your life. Yep, "double ugly" remains the love of my life. Some 2500 hours, 200 combat missions, same # of takeoffs and landings. She remains the conduit for me growing into adulthood, and the means for me to satisfy following in my dads footsteps as a fighter jock. He in the P51-B and me in the F4C/D/E. Good article which I passed on to members of the 13th and 612th. Mailon "Buzz" Gillis

    Posted by Mailon "Buzz" Gillis on January 13,2009 | 10:39AM

    "At times I get to tell them about Marines whom I have met and the history they helped make. But still it is hard for them to understand what an injured Army captain I met on China Beach meant when he told me, “The most beautiful sight in the world is a Marine F–4 rolling in hot with snake and nape.”---Dr. William R. Miller Semper Fi, Shiloh...

    Posted by Lee Logan on January 13,2009 | 12:09PM

    I have always treasured my flight time in the F4B. From the arrested landing on the first flight (utility hydraulic failure) to the last landing three years later at Oceana, the F4 was honest and strong. Dodged flak and SAMs, night and day, but still was honest 'at the ramp'.

    Posted by Mike Downs on January 19,2009 | 10:54PM

    S--- Hot article on the Phantom. What I remember the most is the deafing roar of the two J-79 engines on T/O. The tell tail black smoke trailing from the twin exausts. The ease as to how it handled. Personally, I flew 50 daytime back seat combat missions, in the F4C's; with the 68th TFS, out of Takhli, and then Korat, Thialand, back in 1965. As someone mentioned, flying and landing the F4 from the back seat was akin to looking through a key hole. However, formation flying, formation landings, and air refueling, from the back seat, was a snap. I then upgraded, as a group of backseaters from the 8th TFW, at George AFB, in 1966. The catch was, as a new fledged aircraft commander, we had to fly another 50 combat missions up north, with the 497th TFS, at Ubon, Thialand. The infamous Col. Robin Olds, and Col. Chappie James was with the Triple Nickel, flying F4D's, with a 20mm gun pod, and unreliable Sparrow missiles, during the day. The 497th flew a two ship, blacked out, trail formation, up north; while dropping flares, and looking for targets of oppurtunities. The ordnance we expended included 750# GPB's, CBU's, 2.75 air to ground rockets, and even napalm. One never lived till you dropped nape, from 50 feet off the deck, with flares burning overhead. Sometimes they stayed lit-sometimes they went out, and then it got dark really fast. As the old Bob Hope song goes "Thanks For The Memories." John "Stick" Lewicki

    Posted by Capt. (retired) John "Stick" Lewicki on January 22,2009 | 11:45AM

    I started out working on F100 lead sleds at Phan rang and went to Camron bay. And fell in love with F4s. Cameback to George and spent two more years as airframe on her you could all but tear the outer wings and pop enough rivets to keep us running low on joeblts. all the time. We also had the t bird at the air show was never so impressed by any plane before or there after. And found this sit and it start again was great she still has it all. Bill McElroy

    Posted by william mcelroy on January 22,2009 | 04:38PM

    Knowing little about actual flying back then, I was still amazed at the un-GODly amount of iron we would strap on the wings of the 4s. Extended rails outboard with clusters of 500 pounders on all 4 pylons, and a full 450 gallons on centerline. The thing would come barreling down the runway lookin' like a mud-bogg sled, and finally getting some air under her about the 2 mile mark, would climb out with both pipes just cracklin' away...BEAUTIFUL! It would take alot for me to call her double-ugly. I always thought she was the meanest looking thing we had. Even on the ground, she had ATTITUDE! I said it then and say it now, the F4 is the best deal the tax payers ever got. Vince Hughes crew chief F4E 69-x555 4thTFS DaNang 70-71

    Posted by Vince Hughes on January 25,2009 | 11:15AM

    I enjoyed the article and it filled in some blanks that I knew nothing of... poorly arranged instruments,etc... GIB's were WSO's when I was a C/C at Ramstein... I must admit, I loved to see the big pig fly, but otherwise it was a maintenanve nightmare..!! The only thing easy about the F-4 was walking away from it..!! It did one thing very well... it got engineers at McDonnell-Douglas to stop and think about maintenance... and this brought in the F-15 aircraft. A maintenace friendly, LRU containing, self diagnostic fighter with power, agility, ACESII egress, and a weapons system to put the F-4 to bed with... I left the USAF and became an F-15 Eagle Keeper in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia... and after 20 years away from the Eagle, I am back teaching it again... without the F-4 and all it's pros and cons, the F-15 would never of come to pass... now it is becoming the newest dinosaur, as the F-22 takes the stage... guess I will have to wait on my grandchildren to tell me all about it..!!

    Posted by Don Daugherty USAF Crew Chief 80/86 on January 28,2009 | 02:01AM

    Hello, I am a pilot and I still fly with RF-4E as instructer pilot in Turkey. My jet is perfect past and today.

    Posted by Yasar Kadıoglu on February 8,2009 | 04:20AM

    As a Navy Exchange Officer (PEP tour) flying with the 334th TFS out of Seymour Johnson in the mid-80's, I checked my log book and had the honor of flying tail number 73-1165 and her older sisters, 73-1164 and 1160. The F4 was my first love and mistress...I think my wife was a little jealous of our relationship. What a great airplane...it looked and sounded like a fighter should. This article brought a tear to my eye. Hard to believe that they are being turned into drones. I'll keep hoping that they give the new shooters fits, and don't go down easy. That is as fitting of an end to the Phantom as I could have scripted. Thanks for the great read. Respectfully, Jeff Blackburn CAPT USN retired

    Posted by Jeff Blackburn CAPT USN retired on February 9,2009 | 05:38AM

    As a F-4 Crew Chief it is sad to see them go the way of the drone. However, having worked on C,D,E,F,G, and the RFs, from several different countries from Germany, Japan, and the UK I still love it, and have the bite marks to prove it. Serving in Vietnam to Desert Storm the Phantom showed it had the "Right Stuff" for any role, as Wild Weasels, SAM surpressor, or Photo recon it got the job done, and done well. All while having the ability to survive battle damage and return our crews safely home. We'd repaired them and put them back in the air. Father time has done what our foes could not do to end her long fighting / flight career. The Phantom has serve her Country well and will never be forgotten as to many of us still live and remember when she was our country best in several areas of the record books. Our foes will remember the Phantom, for all the other reasons when they look back from the other side, if they can. "Phantom Keepers do Better and Longer".

    Posted by Henry M. Johnson, SMSgt. USAF Retired on February 19,2009 | 03:03PM

    Sierra Hotel---Flew the Recce jet late in my career--from Shaw airpatch---at low altitude the RF had a real Cadillac ride--a tough old bird--even with multiple malfunctions--it never failed to get us home--sorry to see so many of them are pilotless these days---would love to see a demo at an airshow again some day---

    Posted by Bill Casement, USAF Ret on February 23,2009 | 08:07AM

    I grew up seeing F4s at George, Eglin, Kirtland, and at Osan as a young airman in the 80s. My military time was at the beginning of the end for the F4. I"ll always remember seeing them take off and land at George, Osan and Tinker. W J Gorman former Senior Airman and Army Sergeant(Ret)

    Posted by w gorman on March 4,2009 | 09:22PM

    remember my time on the F-4. from Ramstein to Clark. i was a pointy head (guidance control). many nights we busted our chops to get them ready for the next days flight and it was worth it. when they took off with 3 bags of fuel and a full load of ammo, loud and meaning business. that sight and sound burned into your memory. gotta thank the maintainers, the F-4s were our babies until we handed them over.

    Posted by Charles McRoy USAF Ret on March 18,2009 | 08:48AM

    I was so proud to have my name on the side of 63 431. It served in SE Asia. I worked on it in Spain 77 78 I loved that plane I learned so much, and worked long hours to keep that pig flying.

    Posted by TSgt Rob Powell on March 20,2009 | 09:50AM

    Here in Korea, ROKAF still flies the F4D and F4E. For now, anyway. Nothing like seeing that black trail of smoke in the sky and hearing the J79s!!!

    Posted by Mark on March 25,2009 | 06:28AM

    Great to see some real heroes responding to this awesome article. I got into the mighty Rhino a little late, E models at Clark in the late eighties. But she took a dozen of us over to Turkey (the long way) for a cameo appearance during Desert Storm. Dropped CBU from medium altitude on some ornry AAA sites up north. Then dropped them off at DM on the way home. I think a very fitting way to end an era for the world's undoubtedly finest fighter. Over thirty years of combat service and still being talked about! Phantoms Phorever!

    Posted by Shep on March 31,2009 | 03:47PM

    I enjoyed reading about the Phantom. My interest centers on my brother's service at Ubon in 67-68. I would dearly like to find Lt. Peter Supps who escorted my brother's body home. I was a young girl and at the time didn't speak with him but other members of my family did. I would like to hear from him or anyone else who knew Lt.Francis M. Driscoll. I hope I haven't intruded on your site by this request. To all of you men who fought for our nation, I humbly give my thanks to you and pray God rewards you richly for your service. If you would like to read about my brother I have a new website www.sliceothepie.com if you are interested. Again, thank you for defending our nation and forgive me if I have intruded here. Sincerely, Ruthie Driscoll EDITORS' REPLY: No intrusion at all. Hope one of our readers will know something.

    Posted by Ruth Driscoll on April 7,2009 | 06:31PM

    My life with the F-4 began in August 1967 in the backseat of an F-4B (they still had 4 or 6 of them at MacDill). The ensuing 17 years and 3000 hours in Cs, Ds, Es (hard and soft wings)plus a couple rides in Gs and Recces, including 360 missions in SEA (800 hours)built layer upon layer of love for and experience in the grand old girl. I also had four years in the F-16 at the end of my flying career so can compare a bit. The Phantom was not all that hard to fly - you just had to listen to what she was saying and be a little gentle when her tone dictated. She could reach up and smack you if you did not, but could do all kinds of wonderful things when you asked nicely. From SEA to the Fighter Weapons School - from Holloman to Germany - from Aviano to Squadron Command at Moody, my Phantom and I had all kinds of experiences and,, really became one. She always brought me back home - 16 times with battle damage - even when I pulled some really dumb stunts. You can say what you want about the magic of single engine - I had 35 hours in the F-16 when the fuel pump disintegrated. That is a social significant event in a single engine aircraft! So my career had one more takeoff than landing - but in the F-4 they were even. Even with the gallons of sweat and thousands of curses I left in her, I was truely blessed to have been able to put on old double ugly for so many years.

    Posted by Ed Mangis Col USAF (ret) on April 14,2009 | 09:37PM

    I was a lowly AO3 serving on the Coral Sea from 67-69. We were in route to Yankee Station. I got a message that my Grandfather was ill and would probaly pass soon. I didn't really expect it but my emergency leave was approved.Didn't expect to get off the ship quickly either. After A school in Memphis, I had gone to the OMAS School in Pensecola ( Altitude Chamber and Ejection Seat Training). Next thing my Cheif informs me to get my stuff I am going to get a ride in the backseat of a F4-B. The catshot was better than any ride from Disneyland. Went up 60,000 ft great view. Commander Mc Farland wherever you are I still think about you. AO3 Charles Manning

    Posted by Charles Manning on April 15,2009 | 08:38PM

    I loved flying the F-4 Phantom. Flew 227 combat mission in Vietnam, flying out of Korat, Thailand in the F-4E in 1971/72. Then flew all models at Hill AFB, as a Maintenance Flight Test Pilot, to include the D, E, G, RF and a Navy F-4 on a CAT shot off the USS Saratoga. Then flew #8, F-4 with the USAF Thunderbirds on their South America Tour in 1973. Then as the Deputy Commander for Operations at Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany, Flew the F-4E and F-4G from 1982-1984. Got a lot of combat, training, flight test hours in that bird and I had at least one landing for each takeoff I made - She brought me home every time, even with a big hole in a wing.

    Posted by Colonel Len Moon (Ret) USAF on April 16,2009 | 06:51PM

    Richard Engle made a reference in an earlier post to his brother being in the flight in which " Capt. Black " was shot down. I assume Richard is talking about my father, Capt. Jon D. Black, who was shot down on Oct. 27th, 1967 while flying an F-4D over " Thud Ridge ", tail number 66-7513. Despite evasive maneuvers, his aircraft was hit with AAA fire ... caught fire ... burned for a while then the tail blew apart. With the rest of the aircraft tumbling out of control ... my father managed to eject. However his GIB, 1 LT Lorenzo Conner was unable to eject and went down with the aircraft ... KIA. My father was captured shortly after he parachuted into the jungle and became a POW. My father received an interesting e-mail a few months ago, Lorenzo Conner's remains were apparently discovered and identified in the wreckage of 66-7513 in North Vietnam. After his release from the North Vietnamese, my father continued his pilot career in the Air Force ... being promoted to Lt. Colonel ... and retired in 1980. He currently resides in North Texas ... is still married to my Mom ( 49 years of marriage ! ), they enjoy their pet Schnauzers ... and my father enjoys riding his Harley Davidson motorcycle.

    Posted by Christopher C. Black on April 17,2009 | 06:59PM

    Spent 1/70-1/71 at Ubon in the 25th as a weapons loader and would watch them take off at night after burners glowing. Truely awsome plane. Having come from a SAC base and B-52's the Phantom was and still is my favorite plane. Never got to ride in one but got plenty of lumps and bumps on my head crawling around under them. Sad to see such a workhorse go the way of a drone.

    Posted by John Bemiss on April 22,2009 | 10:27AM

    Never worked on F4's only 100C's D's and F's plus 102's and A7's The only story I have about F4's is a sad one. Just before Christmas,many years ago, an F4 was taking off in the evening on a cross country from Davis Monthan with full drops. As they crossed the perimiter fence, they had a double flameout. It hit the back end of a supermarket across the street. Several shoppers died. Both pilots ejected just in time and landed safely in back yards, though one broke his leg falling into an empty swimming pool in the dark.

    Posted by bydand on May 10,2009 | 02:36PM

    My only connection to the F-4 was as a young lad in a farm field in southern Indiana. We lived about 20 miles from NAD Crane (now Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center) & in the mid-60's Phantoms & B-52's would "attack" Crane as part of their training exercises. Sometimes Buff's would be lined up like a string of pearls as far as the eye could seen, stair-stepped to the north-east as they slowly descended to their penetration altitude. There was a cross-roads a couple of miles from our house that the crews would use as the final IP for their run-in. As luck would have it, that had them flashing right over our fields & our house. Picture this: you're 11, 12 years old. You're heading back to the house after having checked that the cattle have sufficient feed & water. You see this small dot in the sky off to the northeast, getting bigger by the second. It quickly forms into the drooping nose & upswept wing-tips of a Phantom turning in to make a run on Crane. I'm out in the middle of this field, jumping up & down & waving my arms. To no avail, of course, the pilot is obviouly preoccupied & doesn't have time for an 11-year-old boy. Whoosh! He flashes over me maybe 500 feet up & pedal to the metal. I turn to watch him disappear into the distance & then, incredibly, he's waggling his wings at me! This young hot-shot pilot, flying 500 feet off the treetops & busier'n a one-armed, one-legged paper-hanger in a log-rolling contest, he has seen me & in the middle of everything else he's doing he takes the time to say "hi howdy"!! I've always had a soft spot for the Phantom. But I will remember that day for as long as I draw breath. Phantoms Phorever!!

    Posted by Brian Davis on May 11,2009 | 10:46AM

    Does anyone out there know of Mick Roth? Mick was the resident "Phantom Phreak" at the Pma museum in the early days. Lived and breathed F-4's, and order every manual that was available on the F-4 for the museum's library. Last I heard was in the '90's, he was writing tech manuals for the Navy at Pt. Mugu; was a great photog, had quite a few pics published. If you know him, please have him get ahole of me; it has to do with the early days at Pima, and Rhodes Arnold, the father of the Pima museum. Thanks, Don Sproule www.donsprl@aol.com

    Posted by Don Sproule on May 12,2009 | 05:32PM

    Great read. Spent 66-67 at Ubon in Security Police, most of the time at TOC or on the ramp. Having read the "Steve Canyon" strip for years as a kid the sights and sounds were a real draw. Still miss the smell of jet fuel, afterburners, and the Phantom howl. Saw my last Phantoms fly up at Abbotsford BC in 1983, courtesy of the ND "Happy Hooligans". I knew I would never see them fly again (and I was right), and as they climbed out I had a big lump in my throat. But I can still remember.

    Posted by Tom Casey on May 12,2009 | 09:21PM

    I started on the Phantom in November, 1969, at Nellis. My first assigned aircraft was the FWS CC's bird, 67-7331. I remember one morning preflight, about 0430 sitting in the front seat, power on, canopy closed and working on the forms. It's about 25-30 degrees F. out, and suddenly there's a knock on the side of the canopy....Here's this BG standing on the boarding steps, wondering how "his" aircraft was, as he was going XC later that morning. Some of the interesting things that happened you'd never believe. During exercises in alaska, we'd have 10 minute quick turns, some when the pilots didn't even get out of the birds.....crawl up the ladder, hand each of them a hamburger and coke, hook up fuel, a new drag bag and a couple of start carts. They'd crank and toss the empty coke cans at a couple of trash cans at the side of the taxiway as they exited the alert parking area....from shut down to take off was sometimes less that 15 minutes. We spent hours getting them ready....more hours trying to recover after flying, cussing and beefing about the !#$#$ Mcdonnell Douglas POS....but I'd go back on it if I could.

    Posted by Clint Biediger on May 21,2009 | 09:57PM

    I am a private pilot and never flew in the military and I feel a little like an outsider in this forum. The F-4 Phantom to me was the one fighter that could do just about everything and was the most beautiful plane to look at on the ground or in the air, I do not see anything ugly about it, it’s a work of art. When I think about its mach 2 capabilities as far back as 1960 it was a giant leap in military aviation. My 16-year-old son who grew up with posters of F-15’s and F-16’s on his wall used to get tired of me babbling on about the F-4 Phantom. In 2007 my son and I went to the air show at Tinker AFB and there was a QF-4 there that was going to fly in the Heritage Flight and I thought this is great for I had not seen one fly in many years. The Phantom not only flew in the Heritage but also put on a flight demonstration of it’s own and I soon had a son who was an F-4 lover as much if not more than myself. I do hope some Phantom lovers can get and keep some of these great planes flying for many years to come.

    Posted by Darrell Crosby on May 29,2009 | 09:05AM

    With the Editors'indulgence, if you want to join the fraternity of Phantom Phans, come on over to the F-4 Phantom II Society website: www.f4phantom.com. We print a dynamite magazine (SMOKE TRAILS) and have annual PhanCons where we meet other Phans, tour facilites and have a great time telling war stories, etc. Bob Kay (mentioned in the article) is our Society president.

    Posted by Steve Billings on June 14,2009 | 08:35PM

    I was the Dedicated Crew Chief on F4-D 66-456 "The Gambler" is what I heard it was named in Udorn. It was my first jet I crewed (prior AF in Food Service 75-79) re-uped in 82 and cross trained to Tactical Aircraft Maintenance. Let me tell you that I loved working the F4. It was a "mans" jet. You can beat the hell out of it and it still flies. I worked the F4 for 3 years at Homestead AFB Fl. Then we got the plastic plane F16 A & B models. However before my F4 was sent to the Guard in Niagra Falls NY, I was able to get a ride in my jet. All I can say was "Awesome" . However I felt like shit when I got out of the cockpit, I would do it again in a heartbeat. If anyone would happen to come across any info or pictures of tail number F4D 66-456 please email it to me: f4dchief@hotmail.com. Thank you very much. thank you veterans for serving your our country.

    Posted by Joe Boudreau on July 17,2009 | 07:26PM

    The F4 and the F104 are the two most incredible looking aircraft ever built. When living in Ft. Worth it was always a thrill to see the Phantoms flying over. Hear the roar . . . follow the smoke trail . . . and there it was. Yep, they left quite a trail behind them.

    Posted by Doug Davis on July 29,2009 | 09:22PM

    I met the Phantom upon assignment to the F-4 Division of Service Test, Naval Air Test Center, Patuxent River, Maryland in 1968. As a lowly AQF3 (Aviation Fire Control Technician, Third Class) I grew to love the plane ... it was ok to work on, but miracle of miracles, our division was short of RIOs, and several of us techs got to fly ... sometimes on real test missions, but most frequently as a passenger while a desk jockey from the Pentagon came down on the weekend to get in his flight time! Spent alot of time punching holes in the sky ... I'll never forget the USMC pilot who told me that flying over the mountains of Virginia was alot like Cambodia, except that when you looked down you didn't see many parachutes in the treetops! I remember flying with CDR John Rademacher ... the man could make that airplane do anything ... he thrilled me regularly. I also flew a bit with CDR C.A.L. Swanson, another great pilot who went on to become CAG (Commander, Air Group) Seven, on board the USS Forrestal, CV59. The Phantom joined and left the fleet with the Be-Devillers of VF-74. I was always proud to wear the Phantom Phixer AND Phantom Pherret patches on my flight jacket!

    Posted by Andrew Kleeger on August 4,2009 | 02:26PM

    When we were living in a two story house in Dunbar, WV, approximately 4 years after I had served with a Navy A-6 Intruder outfit, I was shaving one morning when I heard the unmistakable approach of an F-4 Phantom into Charleston's airport and National Guard field. I hurried to the window to verify it was indeed a Phantom and my immediate thought was "what's an F-4 Phantom doing in Charleston?". Came to later find out it was Jon McBride flying in to visit his parents who lived in the Charleston, WV area. I always have and always will love the sounds those J-79's make on approach as the pilot adjust this throttles - the screeches, moans and howls give me goose bumps just thinking about them.

    Posted by Jim Wetzel on September 27,2009 | 08:38AM

    Are there any photos of the ground crew of the first flight tests at Edwards AFB, c1959? I was young (maybe 12) at the time. It seems my father told me he was crew chief for the first 4 F4s under test. His name was E.G.(Gerry) Morrison. I remember going to air shows out there. I have pics of the Thunderbirds flying F100s and the 2 remaining X-15s, taken with my trusty Kodak Brownie camera. Any help would be great. Thanks Glenn Morrison EDITORS' REPLY: Start with the Public Affairs Office at Edwards. They will direct you to possible sources.

    Posted by Glenn Morrison on September 29,2009 | 07:34PM

    I worked F-4E's at Korat, 70-71 in Weapons Control with the 388th Combat Support Group, 388th Avionics Maintenance Squadron. I loved the old Phantom II and enjoyed debriefing the GIB's after their missions. When I first got to Korat, we had both F-4E's and 105's and 105 Wild Weasels. We became a full F-4E wing (388th TFW) along with a few 105 Wild Weasels later. Of course this was pre-F-4 Wild Weasel days. The AN/APQ 120 Radar sure needed a lot of maintenance. It brings back a lot of memeories to read the blogs here. I spent my last two years at MacDill with the 1st TAC Fighter Wing (E models) and left the AF in 1973. Sometimes I feel like our old F-4s are now considered "ancient" along with the old P-51's and other "old time" fighters.

    Posted by Bill Person on October 9,2009 | 07:25AM

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