Where Have All the Phantoms Gone?

How a fighter-bomber-recon-attack superstar ended up as fodder for target practice.

  • By Ralph Wetterhahn
  • Air & Space magazine, January 2009
 
F-4s at Arizona’s Davis-Monthan Air Force Base the warplane retirement home. F-4s at Arizona’s Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, the warplane retirement home.

MARK BENNETT

(Page 2 of 8)

He thinks for a moment, then says, “What better way is there for a warrior to end its life than to go down in a blaze of glory?”


The Phantom has been called  “double ugly,” “rhino,” “old smokey,” and monikers even less flattering. The design does have its share of ungainly bends and angles. The horizontal stabilizers droop 23.25 degrees. The outer wing sections tilt upward 12 degrees. When an engineer looks it over, the first thing that probably comes to mind is “stability and control problems.” A brutal example of that weakness occurred during a May 18, 1961 speed record attempt. While Navy test pilot Commander J.L. Felsman flew below 125 feet over a three-mile course, his F-4 experienced pitch damper failure. The resulting pilot-induced oscillation generated over 12 Gs. Both engines were ripped from the airframe and Felsman was killed. (A later attempt succeeded.)

Control sensitivity varies widely. It takes full aft stick to raise the nose for takeoff, yet at certain fuel loadings and at speeds just above Mach 0.9 at low altitude, moving the stick only one inch can produce 6 Gs on the airframe. At above Mach 2, on the other hand, the shock wave that is created moves the center of lift so far aft that pulling the stick all the way back produces only about 2 Gs.

With all its peculiarities and faults, legions have had love/hate relationships with the aircraft. “The F-4 is the last of the fighter pilot’s fighters,” says BAE’s Bob Kay. “You have to fly the F-4.” It has none of the bells and whistles of next-generation fighters. Instead of the multi-function flight displays found in modern fighters, the cockpit instruments are “steam gauges”—round dials with needles. It has an inertial navigation system, best described as cranky. There is no flight management system, no GPS, no Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS), and no “Bitching Betty” voice system to alert the pilot to hazards. You have to navigate, bomb, shoot missiles, fire the gun, look for problems, and evaluate every one of those actions instrument by instrument. For the pilot, this means a lot of time is spent head down, analyzing instrument data; in modern aircraft, on the other hand, much of the information is presented compactly, in head-up displays above the instrument panel.

My affair with the Phantom began upon graduation from pilot training in 1964, when I landed a tour in the Air Force F-4C. Though the Navy and Marine Corps assigned radar operators to the “pit,” as we referred to the second seat, the Air Force thought it would be more effective to use the configuration for two pilots. Wrong. No true fighter pilot chooses to serve as

copilot. The assignment was akin to a shotgun marriage. For two years I languished six feet behind my more experienced comrades, calling off altimeter readings as they bombed, strafed, and fired rockets in training exercises on the gunnery range. Backseaters had to beg, cajole, and whine for stick time, and when we got it, we found that every aspect of flying the F-4 from the rear cockpit was a nightmare. The meager instruments were placed haphazardly in a straight line across the panel. The useless clock and G-meter were located in the center. Why? Because they fit there! Instrument approaches gave you a migraine. And to spot the runway, you had to peer through a knothole on either side of the cockpit, which made landing from the pit an adventure, especially with a crosswind.

Front-seaters were not always thrilled with the F-4 either. In 1972, during his second tour in Vietnam, U.S. Air Force Major Dan Cherry, now a retired brigadier general, flew 185 combat missions in the Phantom; today he recalls: “The F-4 cockpit was uncomfortable, the instruments were poorly arranged, crew coordination was a hassle, it was ugly, and it used fuel like nobody’s business.”

Crews that flew the airplane for the Navy had their own share of problems. By 1966 the Rolling Thunder bombing campaign waged by the Navy and Air Force had really heated up. Large formations of fighter-bombers were striking targets in the Hanoi area daily. That year Commander Dick Adams’ squadron flew combat in F-4s off the carrier USS Franklin D. Roosevelt. Each Phantom launched from the Rosie’s short catapult with four 500-pound and four 1,000-pound bombs, plus an empty centerline tank, which was refueled during climbout. Before a carrier landing, Phantoms had to achieve a certain landing weight; landing heavy would overstress the arresting cables. For this carrier, the F-4 was a heavy aircraft, and as such could try an approach with fuel for only one or two attempts. On the 1966 cruise, one of the squadron jets on a landing attempt was waved off, and when the pilot ran out of fuel before completing a second pattern, the engines flamed out and the aircraft went deep-six. The crew survived.

The F-4 Phantom II lives. But the life it leads today is an odd one.

It still flies in other countries; in northern Iraq, for example, the Turks use it in combat with the Kurds. But in the United States, it leads a twilight existence. It’s a warplane, but it no longer fights. Its mission is weapons testing, but no pilot flies it. Mostly, you’ll find these F-4s either sitting in the desert or lying at the bottom of the sea.

The F-4 entered service in 1960, flying for the U.S. Navy. After studying its potential for close air support, interdiction, and counter-air operations, the Air Force added the F-4 to its fleet in 1963. Eventually the Phantom ended up even in the U.S. Marine Corps’ inventory. In four decades of active service to the United States, the aircraft set 16 world performance records. It downed more adversaries (280 claimed victories) than any other U.S. fighter in the Vietnam War. Two decades later, it flew combat missions in Desert Storm.

In 1996 the aircraft was retired from the U.S. fleet. But the venerable McDonnell design has one last mission to perform for the military: to go down in flames.

Since 1991,  254 Phantoms have served as unpiloted flying targets for missile and gun tests conducted near Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida and Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. The use of F-4 drones (designated QF-4s) is expected to continue until 2014.

When an airframe is needed for target duty, one is pulled from storage at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in the Arizona desert. The airframe is given refurbished engines and instruments, then sent to Mojave Airport in California. There, BAE Systems turns the aircraft into remote-controlled drones, installing radio antennas and modifying the flight controls, throttles, landing gear, and flaps.

QF-4 production test pilot Bob Kay is responsible for testing the converted aircraft, then flying them from Mojave to Tyndall and Holloman. Kay has been captivated by the F-4 since the age of seven, when his father took him to an airshow. “I saw a Navy A-3 refueling two Phantoms as they flew over so low and with that noise,” he says. “That’s all I remember of that airshow, but I knew I wanted to fly that fighter.”

I ask if he has any second thoughts about being part of a system that destroys an airplane he loves, an aviation legend.

He thinks for a moment, then says, “What better way is there for a warrior to end its life than to go down in a blaze of glory?”


The Phantom has been called  “double ugly,” “rhino,” “old smokey,” and monikers even less flattering. The design does have its share of ungainly bends and angles. The horizontal stabilizers droop 23.25 degrees. The outer wing sections tilt upward 12 degrees. When an engineer looks it over, the first thing that probably comes to mind is “stability and control problems.” A brutal example of that weakness occurred during a May 18, 1961 speed record attempt. While Navy test pilot Commander J.L. Felsman flew below 125 feet over a three-mile course, his F-4 experienced pitch damper failure. The resulting pilot-induced oscillation generated over 12 Gs. Both engines were ripped from the airframe and Felsman was killed. (A later attempt succeeded.)

Control sensitivity varies widely. It takes full aft stick to raise the nose for takeoff, yet at certain fuel loadings and at speeds just above Mach 0.9 at low altitude, moving the stick only one inch can produce 6 Gs on the airframe. At above Mach 2, on the other hand, the shock wave that is created moves the center of lift so far aft that pulling the stick all the way back produces only about 2 Gs.

With all its peculiarities and faults, legions have had love/hate relationships with the aircraft. “The F-4 is the last of the fighter pilot’s fighters,” says BAE’s Bob Kay. “You have to fly the F-4.” It has none of the bells and whistles of next-generation fighters. Instead of the multi-function flight displays found in modern fighters, the cockpit instruments are “steam gauges”—round dials with needles. It has an inertial navigation system, best described as cranky. There is no flight management system, no GPS, no Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS), and no “Bitching Betty” voice system to alert the pilot to hazards. You have to navigate, bomb, shoot missiles, fire the gun, look for problems, and evaluate every one of those actions instrument by instrument. For the pilot, this means a lot of time is spent head down, analyzing instrument data; in modern aircraft, on the other hand, much of the information is presented compactly, in head-up displays above the instrument panel.

My affair with the Phantom began upon graduation from pilot training in 1964, when I landed a tour in the Air Force F-4C. Though the Navy and Marine Corps assigned radar operators to the “pit,” as we referred to the second seat, the Air Force thought it would be more effective to use the configuration for two pilots. Wrong. No true fighter pilot chooses to serve as

copilot. The assignment was akin to a shotgun marriage. For two years I languished six feet behind my more experienced comrades, calling off altimeter readings as they bombed, strafed, and fired rockets in training exercises on the gunnery range. Backseaters had to beg, cajole, and whine for stick time, and when we got it, we found that every aspect of flying the F-4 from the rear cockpit was a nightmare. The meager instruments were placed haphazardly in a straight line across the panel. The useless clock and G-meter were located in the center. Why? Because they fit there! Instrument approaches gave you a migraine. And to spot the runway, you had to peer through a knothole on either side of the cockpit, which made landing from the pit an adventure, especially with a crosswind.

Front-seaters were not always thrilled with the F-4 either. In 1972, during his second tour in Vietnam, U.S. Air Force Major Dan Cherry, now a retired brigadier general, flew 185 combat missions in the Phantom; today he recalls: “The F-4 cockpit was uncomfortable, the instruments were poorly arranged, crew coordination was a hassle, it was ugly, and it used fuel like nobody’s business.”

Crews that flew the airplane for the Navy had their own share of problems. By 1966 the Rolling Thunder bombing campaign waged by the Navy and Air Force had really heated up. Large formations of fighter-bombers were striking targets in the Hanoi area daily. That year Commander Dick Adams’ squadron flew combat in F-4s off the carrier USS Franklin D. Roosevelt. Each Phantom launched from the Rosie’s short catapult with four 500-pound and four 1,000-pound bombs, plus an empty centerline tank, which was refueled during climbout. Before a carrier landing, Phantoms had to achieve a certain landing weight; landing heavy would overstress the arresting cables. For this carrier, the F-4 was a heavy aircraft, and as such could try an approach with fuel for only one or two attempts. On the 1966 cruise, one of the squadron jets on a landing attempt was waved off, and when the pilot ran out of fuel before completing a second pattern, the engines flamed out and the aircraft went deep-six. The crew survived.

In March 1966, I was told that if I agreed to take a combat tour, I’d get the front seat. Are you kidding?  I made my first front-seat flight at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida. I still remember it: a gunnery mission. And oh, the visibility from the front

chair! My landing was the smoothest of “grease jobs.” At that moment, the shotgun marriage turned into a love affair.

After passing my checkout flight, I was stationed at Ubon Air Base in Thailand, a member of the 555th—“Triple Nickle”—Squadron in Colonel Robin Olds’ famed Eighth Wing.

At Ubon, the F-4 was all things to all people. One squadron flew only at night, popping flares and dropping bombs. The other two squadrons flew both day and night, dive-bombing bridges, strafing ground targets, rocketing truck parks, and tangling with the ever-elusive MiGs over Hanoi.

On October 11, 1966, I discovered how tough the Phantom was. An 85-mm round blew a four-foot section off my right engine, and the aircraft caught fire. Still, it held together through the 400 miles back to Ubon.

By the end of 1966, the Phantom had revealed a host of shortcomings. Number one was the dismal record of missile hits against the North Vietnamese MiG-17s and MiG-21s. The AIM-7 radar-guided missile had a probability of kill below 10 percent. Richard Keyt, who flew F-4s for the 35th Tactical Fighter Squadron during the Vietnam War, recalls: “Our missiles were designed to work in a non-maneuvering environment—a non-turning, 1-G shot at the bomber target flying straight and level at high altitude.” The reality: “F-4s fired in high-G turns at small MiGs that were turning hard and pulling Gs.” To remedy the problem, the Air Force expanded its Weapons System Evaluation Program (WSEP) at Clark Air Base in the Philippines. Combat crews were given practice in firing missiles at towed radar-reflective targets.

My backseater, First Lieutenant Jerry K. Sharp, and I took part in that exercise over the South China Sea in December 1966, scoring a hit. On January 2, 1967, we used the skills we had honed in that exercise when we merged with a flight of four MiG-21s that were turning hard to get at us. Sharp got a radar lock-on while under heavy Gs. Then I centered the steering dot, fired two AIM-7s, and watched as the second missile exploded and tore the tail section from the MiG in front of us.

For other F-4 shortcomings, the military contracted out quick fixes. Modifications included the installation of Radar Homing and Warning (RHAW) gear—a cockpit system that alerted pilots when their aircraft was being tracked by anti-aircraft-artillery radars or surface-to-air-missile sites. Also added were radar jamming pods, plus chaff and flare dispensers used in combination to confuse tracking radars and to dupe radar-guided or heat-seeking missiles.

The C variant had a number of design problems; one of the biggest was lack of a gun. The rules of engagement over Vietnam required that an adversary be identified visually before a missile could be fired at it. The MiGs were small, and to make the ID, shooters had to get close, often much less than the minimum distance that the AIM-7 radar-guided and AIM-9B heat-seeking missiles required to hit a target. At short range, “if you didn’t have a gun, you couldn’t shoot down anything,” says Rich­ard Keyt. The quick fix was the SUU-16/A gun pod with the M61A1 20-mm cannon.

But without a lead-computing sight and with no tracer ammunition, F-4C pilots were denied the visual cues needed to correct aiming errors. Then, in 1967, the F-4D arrived. The D model introduced a lead-computing optical sight for use with the gun pod. In addition, the normal ammunition load now included tracers.

On November 6, 1967, the gunfighter Phantom proved its worth. Captain Darrell “D” Simmonds and First Lieutenant George H. McKinney Jr. were escorting a flight of F-105s that came under attack by two MiG-17s. “We picked up the MiG-17s visually that were shooting at the Thuds [F-105s],” says Simmonds. “I was able to get in there and maneuvered for a perfect ‘uphill dart’ shot. I hit him, came alongside, and looked at him, and he looked at me, then ejected just before the plane hit the trees.” McKinney spotted another MiG-17 and Simmonds swung into a hard turn, accelerating as he lined up for the shot. “We were close, but I didn’t want to miss the opportunity,” the pilot remembers. “I fired and he blew up.” Later, Simmonds realized: “We had used just 497 rounds for the two kills—less than five seconds of firing.”

The D model, however, was not a cure-all. “The guns on the D hung externally, on the centerline, and that created drag,” says Keyt. As for the missiles, the underperforming AIM-9B was abandoned for the Hughes AIM-4D Falcon. Designed to bring down strategic bombers, it required cooling of the seeker head prior to launch and needed a direct hit to score a kill. As pilots found out during what became known as the “Falcon Fiasco,” it came up short in a dogfight. Major James R. Chamberlain, a backseater stationed with the “Gunfighters”—the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing at Da Nang—notes, “The biggest problem with the AIM-4D was the limited amount of cooling time available [two minutes or less], which meant that the missile could not be pre-cooled for a quicker lock-on. And, once available liquid nitrogen was consumed, the missile was a blind, dead bullet—derisively called the ‘Hughes Arrow.’ ” After firing four of the missiles in combat without success, Robin Olds insisted the missiles cost him his fifth kill. He ordered them removed from his fleet.

The Air Force soon trashed the AIM-4D. Newer Sidewinders were substituted. The military also recognized the benefits of an internal gun: The F-4E, introduced in 1967,  had an M-61A cannon mounted beneath a solid-state AN/APQ-120 radar, both inside the aircraft nose. During the time Richard Keyt’s 35th Tactical Fighter Squadron was based at Korat air base in Thailand,  five squadron aircrews were credited with MiG kills, and four used the internal gun.

In 1973, during my third tour in Southeast Asia, I was assigned to the early E model. It was a dream to fly, not only because of the improvements made in gun and missile technology but also because the Air Force had realized the folly of putting two pilots in a fighter. After 1967, virtually all the GIBs—guys in back—were either navigators or radar intercept operators.

The follow-on Es brought enhancements: A horizontal tailplane with a fixed inverted slat gave improved control at high angles of attack. Leading-edge slats on the wings enabled tighter turns at slow maneuvering speeds. A Northrop system called TISEO (target identification system, electro-optical) identified airborne targets.

By the time my final tour was up, in 1974, a fleet of Phantom variants had safely taken me through a gauntlet of fire and flying experiences that would constitute the greatest adventures of my life.


Three-plus decades later, I was once again in the company of Phantoms. This time the setting was the tarmac at Tyndall.

The commander of the 82nd Aerial Target and Recovery Squadron, which conducts the drone shootdowns, is Lieutenant Colonel J.D. “Bare” Lee. A former F-16 pilot, Lee also has 1,500 hours in the Phantom. He still recalls the first time he took to the air in one. “I was shocked at how much more difficult it was to fly than I thought it would be,” he told me. “When I got home, I told my wife, ‘I think I just traded in a Porsche for a ’72 Cadillac.’ ”

At any one time, a total of up to 80 F-4s are stationed at Tyndall and at Lee’s Holloman detachment in New Mexico. Twenty-one Phantoms sat on a ramp called the Swamp, awaiting movement to Death Row, the holding area for the soon-to-be targets.

At mid-afternoon the drone mission briefing took place. The meeting included the drone “fliers,” Lockheed Martin personnel headed by pilot/controller Matt

LaCourse. “Today’s mission is in support of WSEP, so there’ll be a lot of shooters out there,” said Lee. “WSEP” is the same Weapons System Evaluation Program I had participated in four decades earlier in Vietnam, when I’d practiced shooting at towed targets from F-4s. Now the F-4 was the target.

LaCourse explained that four F-22 Raptors would each fire the latest AIM-120 air-to-air missile. The shooters and chase plane would take off from the main runway, while the drone used a strip three miles east.

Most Phantoms wind up in the Gulf of Mexico within one to three missions. But not all: One, nicknamed “Christine,” after the Stephen King book and film about a crazed car with a mind of its own, had survived 10 missions. Another, “Son of Christine,” has come back from 12 sorties, the current record.

Some drone missions are not meant to be shootdowns: The Phantom is loaded with missile jammers, and missiles without warheads are fired against the craft to test how well the jamming works. Other Phantoms are spruced up with Vietnam War-era camouflage and flown to airshows.

One Phantom was saved by its former pilot. On April 16, 1972, Dan Cherry, flying an F-4D, had scored a victory over a North Vietnamese Mig-21. Thirty-two years later, during a trip with friends to the National Museum of the Air Force in Dayton, Ohio, Cherry encountered the aircraft he had flown that day. It was on display in the little town of Enon, outside Dayton.

“In spite of her flat tires, weeds growing up all around, bird droppings everywhere, and faded gray paint, she was beautiful,” he recalls. “Walking around her and answering my friend’s questions made me realize how much I loved her and how much I owed her for taking such good care of me. Suddenly all those things that seemed like negatives before paled in comparison to the strong bond I felt at that moment.” Cherry took on the task of relocating the aircraft to the Aviation Heritage Park in Bowling Green, Kentucky, where it was restored and is now displayed. Then he decided to learn about the pilot of the MiG he had shot down. (Cherry’s story about meeting his former enemy in Vietnam will appear in a future issue of Air & Space/Smithsonian.)

At Tyndall, the heat and humidity hit my face like a wet washcloth. The van driver took us from Death Row to the end of the runway, where F-4E tail number 73-1165 was positioned about 20 feet to the right of the runway centerline.

I asked if I could approach the aircraft. My unit escort, Major Kevin Brackin, obtained permission. I got out of the van and walked across the concrete. When I reached the aircraft, I placed my hand on the radome. Because of the cloud cover, the nose was warm to the touch, not the usual egg-frying hot. The Phantom felt alive.

I felt a wave of dread. Within minutes this magnificent machine might be in pieces at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

A photo was taken, and I headed back to the van to listen to the radio chatter.

Lee says it cost the Air Force $2.6 million to get the aircraft from the boneyard in Tucson to the runway at Tyndall. Is it worth it? “The F-4E has the built-in ability to launch flares and chaff and can carry an assortment of jamming pods, all of which put our latest weapon systems through their most rigorous tests,” says Lee. Had we taken the time to test our missiles properly in the early 1960s, the Vietnam air war might have turned out like the one over Baghdad: a clean sweep.

We positioned ourselves behind the drone to await the launch order. Both engines were started. The canopy was closed, and the self-destruct bomb was armed for use in case the drone went out of control. Finally, the intake screens in front of the engine inlets were removed.

Then came an ominous ground transmission: The “shooter aircraft have problems,” and a storm cell had slung cloud

layers over a wide swath of sky. We sat and waited.

Finally, after a 15-minute delay, the mission was ordered back on.

The drone launch order was soon passed, and the operators got the Phantom rolling. LaCourse made a correction to get the aircraft precisely on centerline as both afterburners lit. Fifteen seconds later, I watched the pilotless aircraft take off.

The F-4 proceeded out over the gulf. The first aircraft fired its missile. The ground controller monitoring the telemetry radioed the air crews: “No hit.”

The Phantom flew on.

My emotions tangled: I wanted the aircraft to survive, but I also wanted it to fulfill its intended mission.

The four F-22 Raptors spread out. Each launched a missile. Over the radio we heard “Fox-four”—all shooters had fired.

Then: “Splash.” A direct hit.

Brackin and I walked back to the van and got in. Brackin was staring straight ahead. Then he turned to me. “So now you know,” he said, grinning. “It takes four Raptors to kill an F-4.” 

 


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Comments (139)

I still say the F-4 is one the best fighters we had!

Posted by Stephen Elkin USN 1968-1972 on November 20,2008 | 03:20 PM

Nice job, Ralph! You captured the relationship spot on.

Bill McCabe, Col, USAF (Ret)
(F-4C GIB, 433rd TFS, 8th TFW, Ubon '67)

Posted by Bill McCabe on November 21,2008 | 10:15 AM

Great article about a truly fabulous fighter aircraft, but noticed one glaring omission regarding the F-4's service. It is still in service with the Israeli Air Force, which has over 100 kills with the E model.

Posted by Charles R Spigelman on November 21,2008 | 11:19 PM

This was a great story on the F4.I was wondering if Mr. Wetterhahn knew my brother, Bill Engle, flew the F4 (GIB)in the 555th in Vietnam. He happened to be in the formation when Capt Black got shot down. (At least that is what I was told.) He went on to fly the Bufs and was at various air commands. He retired as a bird Col in 1990, and died in '91.

Posted by Richard on November 24,2008 | 03:44 PM

Let me clarify that I understood my brother was in one of the other planes in formation when Capt Black was shot down.

Posted by Richard Engle on November 24,2008 | 04:06 PM

I share the sentiment, but my feelings are for the F-102A. I was flying the 'duece' when they went off of active duty with the Air Force. They went to the Guard, then became targets for the F-16s in Florida. :-(

Posted by Gary L. McDowell on November 26,2008 | 02:36 PM

Excellent article Ralph. I was fortunate to have flown all models of the Air Force F-4 and the Navy B model I truly love the Phantom. I would give a bunch for one more flight. I ended up with 3500 hours in the F-4 and wish I had much more. In all that time I never had one engine problem. A truly remarkable fighter.

Ross

Posted by Ross Peeler on November 26,2008 | 03:56 PM

I sort of have a love-hate relationship with the Phantom.

I was an Infantry pointman in Vietnam. I was the first one to walk down the jungle path to find the mines, boobytraps, snipers, machine gunners, and ambushes. Occasionally, it was dangerous, and I earned the 30 cents an hour the government paid me.

During one battle I had a North Vietnamese soldier spend a good deal of time trying to kill me with his machine gun. He did kill another pointman, who then spent an hour dying next to me.

An F-4 pilot - trying to kill that machine gunner hit me with one of the expended 20 mm shell casing he fired. That may not sound like much, but they weigh the better part of a pound, are traveling at about 200 MPH, and are almost red hot. They really hurt when they hit!

On his next pass, he splashed napalm on me. That made me forget about the other injury.

When I assaulted the machine gun position a few minutes later, I discovered that the F-4 pilot had killed the machine gunner. (Either that, or the North Vietnamese had been storing a lot of raw steaks in the bunker.)

That's the basis of my love-hate relationship. I really like that the Phantom pilot killed the bastard, but I would have liked him a lot more if I hadn't been on the receiving end of part of his ordinance.

I later was in charge of the production control effort for the AIM-9L Sidewinder missile, which was infinitely better than those AIM-9D antiques!

Posted by Bob Leahy on November 26,2008 | 05:33 PM

Surely would have liked to read some stories from the Naval Aviators/RIO's. After all, it was first and foremost a Navy aircraft.

One of the more exciting events that happened to me was a double-engine flame out. Very interesting to say the least.

I was Randy Cunningham's first RIO before he and Driscoll got their five MiG kills.

L. Batterman
USN 1967-1972
VF-96 1969-1971

Posted by Lynn Batterman on November 27,2008 | 12:52 PM

I WAS THE "GIB" IN THE BACKSEAT OF BLUE ANGEL #3 WITH ERNIE CHRISTENSEN AT THE CONTROLS. THE ONLY AIRCRAFT THE BLUES EVER FLEW WITH "CREW CHIEFS" IN THE "PIT".

GREAT STORY OF THE AIRCRAFT. AS A RETIRED UAL 747-400 CAPT. AND FAA CHECK AIRMAN, IF I HAD KNOWN THEN WHAT YOU SPEAK OF NOW I WOULD HAVE BEEN SCARED. BUT AT THE TIME AT AGE 24 I NEVER GOT SCARED! WE THOUGHT THE F4J WAS A TERRIFIC PLANE BUT DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE FLYING DIFFICULTIES, AND THE "BLUES" MADE IT LOOK EASY. NOTHING LIKE HAVING 6 F4'S WITH 12 J79'S IN AFTERBURNER COMING OVER THE CROWD TO GET THEIR ATTENTION!

Posted by DAVE KENT on November 27,2008 | 01:15 PM

I was a member of the 435th (former 4th TFS at Eglin) when Maj Simmonds had his twin killing. We were the first "D" model unit in SEA.

Posted by FCS on November 27,2008 | 10:35 PM

Nice writ up of a great aircraft, which still has a mission in many foreign Countries, some plan to fly the Phantom past the year 2020. I have spent my career in the Air Force and at GE Aviation insuring the Engines can continue to operate at the same high reliability rate it has enjoyed since it's early years. All current aircraft engines are a derivitive in air flow design based on the J79's variable compressor vane design whicj was promoted back in the 1950's by Mr. Neumann, a GE Engineer/ Manager.

Posted by Mike Solon - AKA J79 Engine on November 28,2008 | 10:08 AM

I was an Aircraft Electricial Repairman working on Hueys and whatever crossed the flightline at Sheppard AFB in Texas.

Like most young Airmen I was waiting on orders to wisk me away to Vietnam or Thailand. Things were getting serious for the US in '66/67.

So yes, I was surprised when some kindly gray haired matron took pity on a poor Texas boy. I was assigned to the 36th TFW in Bitburg Germany.

I fell in love with the Phantom (F4D) at first sight. That was in 1968. Still think of it with a quiet pride even now. Fastest, meanest, true blue, get what you put into aircraft.

Long cold hours, many TCTO's, tight spaces, bird
strikes, gear troubles, generator/csd troubles and all.

I loved working on the D model...

Years and years later the Texas ANG was still flying
them. Living only a few miles from a base I could tell from the Banshee wail which A/C were flying. Still get that slight chill at the sound I remembered so well.

The VFW hall a few miles away received a D model
for display. Passing by I was sad, shocked and
pleased to see an old friend I had spent many long hours with.

Posted by John Calley on November 28,2008 | 10:49 PM

The relationship between the pilot and his plane is expressed very well in this article, as is the history of the F-4. Good job on this one!

Posted by C/A1C Alexander Riehl, CAP on November 29,2008 | 09:35 AM

Your article hit home. I logged over 3000 hours (front and back) in the Phantom while stationed at MacDill, Eglin, Korat, Torrejon, Kunsan, George, and Clark. I had nothing to compare her to, so I was always overjoyed to be strapped in. Like you said, she wasn't considered pretty or sleek (beauty's in the eye of the beholder)and I even remember some F-100 jocks refusing to transition because of the two seats, but she was a war horse. And she had the strength and mass to bring you home despite battle damage.

Col (Ret) John Allevato

Posted by Col (Ret) John Allevato on November 30,2008 | 09:02 AM

I remember the change from the AIM-4D to the AIM-9 well.
In Udorn, Thailand, civilians did the re-wiring, but I
actually had to borrow the tech-reps McDonnell wiring
diagrams because the USAF had deleted the pages from the
F4-D tech order

Posted by Ron Collins on November 30,2008 | 02:52 AM

Ralph,
My friend, you have done it again. Excellent!!
Semper Fidelis,
Crow
VMFA-122, VMFA-115 1967, 68

Posted by Jack McEncroe on December 1,2008 | 09:31 AM

Yes, to some they were ugly, but not to those of us who maintained them, even though we cursed, cajoled begged and made deals with them as we fixed the quirky bas....s. But don't ever think we didn't love that airplane. then at Udorn in 68 and 69 and even today they remain a "beautiful" airplane. she will forever fly the sunlit skies if only in our memories.

Posted by rick dugas on December 2,2008 | 08:06 AM

Ralph;

Article well done; thanks for writing a very good history on the F4 Phantom, the best aircraft the cold war ever saw, powered by the most maintainable and highest reliable engines ever built, the GE J79's. All modern engines owe their basic compressor air flow design to the GE J79 engineering group managed by Mr. Neumann. The current operators fly under the name of "J79 TIGERS" and some will fly beyond 2025. Long Live the Phantom and the J79 Engines who power her.

Posted by Mike Solon - AKA J79 Engine on December 2,2008 | 08:52 AM

Excellent Article. The first three fighters I flew in the USAF have been used as drones; F-102, F-106, and F-4. I hope the fourth, the F-15, does not face a similar fate. Although, Ralph sheds a different light on this valuable Air Force mission aptly performed by "Double Ugly".

Posted by Stan Welch, LTC (Ret), USAF on December 2,2008 | 05:15 PM

I have always been proud of my time on the Phantom and even more proud of the community that flew and fixed them.
Bill Crean c/c 68-0428,68-0420,69-7560.

Posted by Bill Crean on December 2,2008 | 09:26 PM

This article brings back many fond memories of a grand old aircraft.I worked on Navy models F4B, N, J & S, from 1973 through 1983, before they were replaced by the F14 Tomcat. As far as I'm concerned, the F14 couldn't hold a candle to the venerable F4. They may be "Old Iron", but they will will always have a special place in this retired Navy Chief's heart. To borrow a qoute from Shakespear's Hamlet, "Alas poor Phantom, I knew you well".

Posted by Jim Baird on December 3,2008 | 06:20 PM

Sadly, there's no comments about the QF4s from China Lake. We recently lost Cdr. Harlan Reep, USN Ret. (The Grim Reaper)to natural causes (Nov.'08) who was one of the best F4 drivers known to man and a top drone pilot. We miss him and the '4's...smokey joe's we called 'em. They've a great history here at China Lake. Cdr. Dick Wright still makes it to the Commissary and he too has a great record of being an F4 driver. His picture hangs in the hall of the Flight Test Hall at Edwards AFB. We began the drone programme here many years ago...T-33s and such. Ahhhh, I miss that time as well.
One quick story: Wright's son is/was an AF pilot, came to China Lake, got a ride in the back seat of an F4 from 'Dad' and upon landing, could barely walk...was quite green about the gills and ah...well, we'll see you at the Barefoot Bar and I'll tell you the rest of the stories!!!

Posted by Pheadar O Tyrrell on December 4,2008 | 12:57 AM

Worked on RF's at Mtn Home, F4 D's with the 13tfs at Udorn, and E models at Homestead. Saw them take a real beating and come home. What else can be said?

Posted by Vilos Mullins, ex-Ssgt on December 5,2008 | 06:58 AM

I was employed at McDonnell Aircraft Corp. as a data reduction technician when the F4H-1 prototype made its first flight. A bunch of us climbed to the very top of the old Low-Speed Wind Tunnel building where we were able to see the takeoff and subsequent landing over on Lambert Field.

Posted by Virgil H. Soule on December 6,2008 | 02:17 PM

In the Air and Space Magazine there is a picture, on page 32, of an F-4B(?) on an aircraft carriar deck. The picture is captioned, "Operating from the USS Constellation (opposite, below) during the Vietnam War, the Marines used Phantoms as tactical recon craft (RF-4Bs)."

The other aircraft in the picture (launching from a catapult) is an FA-18A Hornet which didn't go operational until January 1983 -- long after Vietnam.

Maybe a different war?
EDITOR'S REPLY: You're right. I introduced that error; it was not the author's.

Posted by MSgt. Otho E. Fogwell, USAF, Ret. on December 6,2008 | 05:20 PM

There was a P-38L at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, so I rode my motorcycle over to take a look at it. Very nice. While looking over the P-38, I heard this strange, piercing jet engine sound. It was the wail of a Phantom! An RF-4 Phantom from Idaho National Guard landed at Boeing Field, and taxied in near the Museum! I also got to see it take off.

Someday, if my grandkid gets interested in airplanes, he will be able to take his kid to see that same P-38. But I don't know how they will ever be able to see and hear what I experienced that day.

Phantoms Phorever!

Seeya
ATB

Posted by Alan T. Butler on December 6,2008 | 10:23 PM

Great article! As an AF pilot, I never had the chance to fly an F-4, but I sure enjoyed watching them from other aircraft. Beautiful. Sitting at number one waiting for clearance at Luke AFB one day, I had a front row seat as an F-4E took the approach end barrier (with it's tailhook). Don't see an AF bird do that too often, then taxi away after being unhooked!

In later years, I have also provided video cameras to China Lake for some of their QF-4 Drones. That was fun also!

Posted by Larry Klementowski on December 9,2008 | 01:47 PM

We, the Cowboys, VMFA-112, did some pretty interesting testing in 1988-1990, cloaking ourselves from the AIM-9Ls, and therefore, all of the rest of the "heatseekers."

...still got the video from the AIM-9M/L shooters who couldn't keep a lock.

It took a while to get it going, but after getting a thumbs up from NavAir and the MAG-41 CO, "Thunder," we began the magic. Yes, there were many naysayers, but overall, the Cowboys, once again, supported the unlikely and did the impossible. We did it the "Cowboy" way.

Thanks!

A documentary about that episode in the F-4 Phantom's intriguing life is in pre-prpduction.

Yes, the theory was proved!

The Cowboys celebrated the Marine Corps Birthday this year (2008) at the Tap In Bar n' Grill in Grapevine, TX where we recollected stories about that.

Semper Fi

Julian "Hulio" Vazquez, LtCol USMC (Ret)
www.insidetheindustry.tv

Posted by Julian "Hulio" Vazquez, LtCol USMC (Ret) on December 9,2008 | 02:39 PM

I first saw the magnificent F-4C at McDill AFB in Tampa, Fl. at the age of 7. My father was training in the F-4 as he had orders to go to SEA. I remember seeing two of them land together and seeing the chutes deployed to slow them down...WOW!

My dad went off to UBON, RATAFB later that year and took part in Operation Bolo (Rambler 4)and downed a Mig-21 and had a 'probable' Mig 21 killon that famous mission. He later downed a Mig-17 flying the F-4C.

Years later we were stationed at Holloman and my dad was the DO. I could really appreciate the F-4 as a 12-year-old compared to a 7-year-old. Living on a base with 94 F-4's was dream for a young fighter pilot's son. My dad made it special, too, and allowed me to see his squadron off for Crested Cap and let me sit in on the briefing. I was truly in awe and will never forget that special day in 1971.

It saddens me to see such a reliable and magnificent war bird relenquished to flying target practice for today's modern military, but if it's current duty benefits our military and our country's security, then so be it.

Te F-4's place in history is secured for eternity and I am honored to have known of her and the brave and talented pilots that flew her!

Posted by Neal Combies on December 9,2008 | 12:23 AM

I proudly worked on my three Phantoms at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, located in Woodbridge, Suffolk, England, past home of the 81st T.F.W, 91st T.F.S "Blue Streaks" (77-79). I thoroughly enjoyed my time at "Cripple Creek", working in the soggy weather of England, putting Phantoms in the air and nursing them back to health on the ground. The friendships I made will last a lifetime. You're article brings back a lot of fond memories. Mahalo for the trip down memory lane!

Da Riddler
Baker Area Blue Streaker
c/c 66-6629, 66-6578, & 65-6578

Posted by E.W. "Bill" Riddle a.k.a Da Riddler on December 11,2008 | 02:06 PM

I remember that whenever you saw a trail of black smoke in the sky 20 miles away, it was either a Boeing 727 or an F-4. Both wonderful birds but the F-4 is still amazing. Like many of you I pray we keep a good number of F-4s available for air shows, displays and memorials to all the American heroes who flew them.
I am also trying to find a photo that I think was on the cover of Parade magazine one Sunday, probably 40 years ago. It was a front view of an F-4 and the tarmac was literally covered with a well laid out spread of all the weapons and attachments that could be carried by the aircraft. It was an incredible display that would have dwarfed a Ted Nugent garage sale.
Regards to all and God bless every American veteran.

Posted by Scott Blalock on December 11,2008 | 04:40 PM

Forty two years later I still remember going up the ladder at Davis Monthan and strapping in for my first ride in that magnificant bird. I knew I'd 'found a home.' In December of '66 I stopped a SAM about 5 miles north of Hanoi. I took a direct hit that blew the airplane completely in two behind the trailing edge of the wing. When I got out and got a chute she was immediately below me in a flat spin going down and shedding parts. She was a tough old bird and I know if I'd been riding in anything else that day I wouldn't be writting this story. Phantoms Forever. Happy Trails, Bud Flesher

Posted by Bud Flesher on December 11,2008 | 10:50 PM

Well written article and appreciate more words about the F-4 of old than on the "above and beyond" missions they go on now. I've got 2.5K hours as a Marine Radar Intercept Officer (not "operator," as written) so my F-4 stick-time is limited to the 20 hr I have in the Collings Foundation F-4D. I can say with certainty that the F-4D with full internal fuel and full wing tanks does not need full aft stick to take off! On my first rear cockpit take-off, with a lot less than full aft stick deflection, the nose came up and continued to rise rather quickly and I can still hear BG Steve Ritchie "encouraging" me to get the nose down! On a carrier launch, full aft stick would get you from horizontal to near vertical in a blink, particularly during light-weight carrier quals. Also, true there wasn't much G available at mach 2 but to get that speed, we flew at 50K feet where mach 2 was only a few hundred knots indicated airspeed so not many "Bernoullis" up there with which to maneuver...and at mach 2 who wants to maneuver and bleed all that hard earned airspeed?

Posted by Bill (B-Bop) Bowers on December 11,2008 | 12:45 AM

Towards the end of Vietnam I was stationed at NAS Miramar, assigned to a Composite Squadron of F-8 Crusaders and A-4 Skyhawks. There were still a few F-8 squadrons there, but, everything else was F-4 Phantoms. 100s of 'em. To me they were never ugly, in fact, to this day I think they are incredibly cool with their upturned wingtips and downturned elevons (I hope thats correct terminology!) But what I liked the most about them was that eerie 'howl' they would make as they approached... even when taxiing. I'd be in the fuel pits with my birds and the F-4s would roll by and they'd just put the fear of God in you... and they were on MY side! Just imagine how the enemy felt! They will forever be one of my all time favorite birds. They were just big, bad and awesome!

Posted by AT3 Cord 'Cam' Cameron, USN 1970-74 VC-7 on December 13,2008 | 05:38 PM

I was ships company AIMD,ADJ-5,on the Connie, 1968-1972. Loved the J-79-8 in the F4's and the A-5 vig's had the J79-10. I remember the 4's coming back with small arms damage and still landing on the deck in one piece, it is one tough plane. Most pilots didn't even know they'd taken a hit or two. Take a piece of welding wire thru the bullet hole to see where it went if it didn't hit anything on it's way out the holes were patched, and back on the deck. At the time we only had J and B mod's of them. Swap out the bomb racks for a couple of 20mm cannons made them look mean. Saddans my heart when I see one used of target practice. Great war bird.

Posted by Les Georgi on December 13,2008 | 05:49 PM

What other aircraft could possibly generate this outpouring of comment? The Phantom II is the first fighter aircraft to have a 50 year service life. As a small child, my father would take me to Miramar NAS and sit me in the cockpit of the still new F-4's and I was smitten with a lifelong love of ANYTHING having to do with aviation, but even more so with the Phantom.

Posted by John A Hays on December 26,2008 | 05:08 AM

So sad to see a great war bird used for target practice.
First saw this bird when she was used as a Thunderbird.
As one pilot said, she may not be very pretty, but she was loud. Super war bird.......

Posted by Wil Moore on December 31,2008 | 12:53 AM

The Phantom F-4. Certainly missed!

But every one has neglected to mention the finest airshows
ever flown by the US Air Force Thunderbirds!

Does anyone recall the sights and sounds of those eight J-79 afterburners operating in unison!? I do...

The Thunderbirds flew their show over the Old City of San Juan, Puerto Rico (USA) for many years, using as hardware the F-100, the F-4E and T-38s. I strongly feel that the F-4E shows were the finest ever, because they did put "the fear of God" into you. The current F-16 squadron sounds like a glorified posse of high-performance vacuum cleaners. Of course the F-16 handles orders-of-magnitude better at show speeds and has superior maneuverability, but when America needed to remind friend and foe of its technological and military prowess, the F-4 was (and shall remain) simply peerless. (No wonder the Blue Angels flew Phantoms too!)

Posted by Prof. Rafael E. (Ricky) Irizarry on January 1,2009 | 10:12 AM

I worked on F-4's while in the AF between '66 and '69. From MacDill to Holmstead, from McConnell to Ubon Thailand this plane was the technology of the time.
Col.Robin Olds and his colleague Chapee James were Aces with the 8th Tactical Fighter Squadron there at Ubon.
It is quite amazing that you can develop such an affectionate relationship with a supersonic fighter jet with a bulbous nose. We loved this aircraft, camo and all.

Posted by Archangel on January 2,2009 | 06:06 AM

Great Magazine

Posted by Ronnie on January 6,2009 | 10:07 PM

This is a very interesting article about the F-4 and
what it has done.
You mentioned the 'SAGEBURNER' problems.
Missing is the problems encountered with the 'TOP FLIGHT' program.
Oct 21,1959 test pilot Gerald "Zeke" Huelsbeck was killed.
Problems with aircraft structure, causing control lost
at over 98,000 feet.
This caused a change in ejection systems to the F-4.

note: I found a good writeup of this altitude try in a book by Robt. F. Dorr
Osprey air combat
"McDonnell-Douglas F-4 PHANTOM II" page 27/28

your magazine is very good and enjoyable.

Posted by Thomas C. Voigt on January 8,2009 | 09:55 PM

As a crew chief I was disappointed when I found out that my SEA tour assigment to Ubon and the 8th TAC FTG Wing in 1971 would be on B-57's and not Phantoms. But the B-57 squadron (13th) was deactivated before my tour was over and I was eventually re-assigned to Korat and wound up in the 469th TFS with F-4E's to finish out my tour. I'm proud that I got to spend that time with a lot of great maintainers
supporting the Phantoms and their aircrews. There was nothing like seeing a fully laden Phantom throttle up and roll out of the revetment and then thunder down the runway. I remember one Phamtom pilot telling me that he felt like the meanest SOB on the block every time he pushed the throttles forward.
Ken Watterson
Ubon / Korat 1971-72
USAF 1969 - 73

Posted by Ken Watterson on January 9,2009 | 08:25 PM

The flight surgeon said "Lieutenant, if God wanted you to fly, He'd given you wings. Now get out of here." A senior officer gave me another choice, RIO in the F-4. I wanted to fly. The back seat was my only option. 2,000 hours, 267 combat missions, 129 carrier landings (USS NIMITZ)later, I'd make the same choice. I saw the perfect, burning blue and the curviture of the earth from 80,000 feet in my full pressure suit when both THUNDERBOLT compressors stalled. Ike Isaacson and I faced down an SA-2 with his plu-perfect Split S in our BLACK KNIGHT F-4 near the Rock Pile. Tom Kennan and I WX Bingoed our BLACK KNIGHT F-4 to UBON from Chu Lai on the afternoon when Robin Olds and his Wolf Pack swaggered (rightfully so) into the O Club bar. Even a cold cat from NIMITZ couldn't sink our SHAMROCK F-4 when Clay Stillings pushed the Clear-It-Off button, while passing below the Dirty Shirt Mess.

Posted by Larry Klipp (Klipper) on January 12,2009 | 12:39 PM

Great article. With over 3200 hours as a RIO in the back seat of F-4J, N, S, E, and RF models (and another 1000 hours in the F/A-18D as well), and multiple flights in just about every two seat tactical jet in the USMC, USN and USAF inventory during the 70s and 80s, I can defintely attest to the fact that there was NOTHING flying that commanded the awe, respect and fear that the mighty Phantom earned. A jack of all trades, master of none, and the love of my flying career - Phantoms Forever!

Posted by Bull Pratt on January 12,2009 | 03:52 PM

I flew the RF-4C for nearly a decade and loved ever minute that my butt was strapped to the seat of the Phantom. After a tour in Vietnam and 200 combat missions I spent the rest of my Air Force career as an IP at Bergstorm where I "upgraded" pilots of B-52s, F-106s, T-38s and others to become combat ready in the Recce F-4. The F-4 made this job easy because is was a very honest, easy to land, and reliable aircraft.

What I wouldn't give for the chance to fly a couple more hours in the double ugly.

Posted by Les Carlton on January 12,2009 | 06:16 PM

Getting back with Members of the 13thTFS and 612th TFS from Udorn 1970-1971 and 1971-1975 respectively, lots of memories
from those days. Spent 20 years in the F-4, as Hemingway said your first fighter will always be the love of your life. Yep, "double ugly" remains the love of my life. Some 2500 hours, 200 combat missions, same # of takeoffs and landings. She remains the conduit for me growing into adulthood, and the means for me to satisfy following in my dads footsteps as a fighter jock. He in the P51-B and me in the F4C/D/E. Good article which I passed on to members of
the 13th and 612th.

Mailon "Buzz" Gillis

Posted by Mailon "Buzz" Gillis on January 13,2009 | 01:39 PM

"At times I get to tell them about Marines whom I have met and the history they helped make. But still it is hard for them to understand what an injured Army captain I met on China Beach meant when he told me, “The most beautiful sight in the world is a Marine F–4 rolling in hot with snake and nape.”---Dr. William R. Miller


Semper Fi,

Shiloh...

Posted by Lee Logan on January 13,2009 | 03:09 PM

I have always treasured my flight time in the F4B. From the arrested landing on the first flight (utility hydraulic failure) to the last landing three years later at Oceana, the F4 was honest and strong. Dodged flak and SAMs, night and day, but still was honest 'at the ramp'.

Posted by Mike Downs on January 19,2009 | 01:54 AM

S--- Hot article on the Phantom. What I remember the most is the deafing roar of the two J-79 engines on T/O. The tell tail black smoke trailing from the twin exausts. The ease as to how it handled. Personally, I flew 50 daytime back seat combat missions, in the F4C's; with the 68th TFS, out of Takhli, and then Korat, Thialand, back in 1965. As someone mentioned, flying and landing the F4 from the back seat was akin to looking through a key hole. However, formation flying, formation landings, and air refueling, from the back seat, was a snap. I then upgraded, as a group of backseaters from the 8th TFW, at George AFB, in 1966. The catch was, as a new fledged aircraft commander, we had to fly another 50 combat missions up north, with the 497th TFS, at Ubon, Thialand. The infamous Col. Robin Olds, and Col. Chappie James was with the Triple Nickel, flying F4D's, with a 20mm gun pod, and unreliable Sparrow missiles, during the day. The 497th flew a two ship, blacked out, trail formation, up north; while dropping flares, and looking for targets of oppurtunities. The ordnance we expended included 750# GPB's, CBU's, 2.75 air to ground rockets, and even napalm. One never lived till you dropped nape, from 50 feet off the deck, with flares burning overhead. Sometimes they stayed lit-sometimes they went out, and then it got dark really fast. As the old Bob Hope song goes "Thanks For The Memories."

John "Stick" Lewicki

Posted by Capt. (retired) John "Stick" Lewicki on January 22,2009 | 02:45 PM

I started out working on F100 lead sleds at Phan rang and went to Camron bay. And fell in love with F4s. Cameback to George and spent two more years as airframe on her you could all but tear the outer wings and pop enough rivets to keep us running low on joeblts. all the time. We also had the t bird at the air show was never so impressed by any plane before or there after. And found this sit and it start again was great she still has it all. Bill McElroy

Posted by william mcelroy on January 22,2009 | 07:38 PM

Knowing little about actual flying back then, I was still amazed at the un-GODly amount of iron we would strap on the wings of the 4s. Extended rails outboard with clusters of 500 pounders on all 4 pylons, and a full 450 gallons on centerline. The thing would come barreling down the runway lookin' like a mud-bogg sled, and finally getting some air under her about the 2 mile mark, would climb out with both pipes just cracklin' away...BEAUTIFUL! It would take alot for me to call her double-ugly. I always thought she was the meanest looking thing we had. Even on the ground, she had ATTITUDE! I said it then and say it now, the F4 is the best deal the tax payers ever got. Vince Hughes crew chief F4E 69-x555 4thTFS DaNang 70-71

Posted by Vince Hughes on January 25,2009 | 02:15 PM

I enjoyed the article and it filled in some blanks that I knew nothing of... poorly arranged instruments,etc... GIB's were WSO's when I was a C/C at Ramstein... I must admit, I loved to see the big pig fly, but otherwise it was a maintenanve nightmare..!! The only thing easy about the F-4 was walking away from it..!! It did one thing very well... it got engineers at McDonnell-Douglas to stop and think about maintenance... and this brought in the F-15 aircraft. A maintenace friendly, LRU containing, self diagnostic fighter with power, agility, ACESII egress, and a weapons system to put the F-4 to bed with...
I left the USAF and became an F-15 Eagle Keeper in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia... and after 20 years away from the Eagle, I am back teaching it again... without the F-4 and all it's pros and cons, the F-15 would never of come to pass... now it is becoming the newest dinosaur, as the F-22 takes the stage... guess I will have to wait on my grandchildren to tell me all about it..!!

Posted by Don Daugherty USAF Crew Chief 80/86 on January 28,2009 | 05:01 AM

Hello, I am a pilot and I still fly with RF-4E as instructer pilot in Turkey. My jet is perfect past and today.

Posted by Yasar Kadıoglu on February 8,2009 | 07:20 AM

As a Navy Exchange Officer (PEP tour) flying with the 334th TFS out of Seymour Johnson in the mid-80's, I checked my log book and had the honor of flying tail number 73-1165 and her older sisters, 73-1164 and 1160. The F4 was my first love and mistress...I think my wife was a little jealous of our relationship. What a great airplane...it looked and sounded like a fighter should. This article brought a tear to my eye. Hard to believe that they are being turned into drones. I'll keep hoping that they give the new shooters fits, and don't go down easy. That is as fitting of an end to the Phantom as I could have scripted.
Thanks for the great read.

Respectfully,

Jeff Blackburn

CAPT USN retired

Posted by Jeff Blackburn CAPT USN retired on February 9,2009 | 08:38 AM

As a F-4 Crew Chief it is sad to see them go the way of the drone. However, having worked on C,D,E,F,G, and the RFs, from several different countries from Germany, Japan, and the UK I still love it, and have the bite marks to prove it. Serving in Vietnam to Desert Storm the Phantom showed it had the "Right Stuff" for any role, as Wild Weasels, SAM surpressor, or Photo recon it got the job done, and done well. All while having the ability to survive battle damage and return our crews safely home. We'd repaired them and put them back in the air. Father time has done what our foes could not do to end her long fighting / flight career. The Phantom has serve her Country well and will never be forgotten as to many of us still live and remember when she was our country best in several areas of the record books. Our foes will remember the Phantom, for all the other reasons when they look back from the other side, if they can. "Phantom Keepers do Better and Longer".

Posted by Henry M. Johnson, SMSgt. USAF Retired on February 19,2009 | 06:03 PM

Sierra Hotel---Flew the Recce jet late in my career--from Shaw airpatch---at low altitude the RF had a real Cadillac ride--a tough old bird--even with multiple malfunctions--it never failed to get us home--sorry to see so many of them are pilotless these days---would love to see a demo at an airshow again some day---

Posted by Bill Casement, USAF Ret on February 23,2009 | 11:07 AM

I grew up seeing F4s at George, Eglin, Kirtland, and at Osan as a young airman in the 80s. My military time was
at the beginning of the end for the F4. I"ll always remember seeing them take off and land at George, Osan and Tinker.
W J Gorman former Senior Airman and Army Sergeant(Ret)

Posted by w gorman on March 4,2009 | 12:22 AM

remember my time on the F-4. from Ramstein to Clark. i was a pointy head (guidance control). many nights we busted our chops to get them ready for the next days flight and it was worth it. when they took off with 3 bags of fuel and a full load of ammo, loud and meaning business. that sight and sound burned into your memory. gotta thank the maintainers, the F-4s were our babies until we handed them over.

Posted by Charles McRoy USAF Ret on March 18,2009 | 11:48 AM

I was so proud to have my name on the side of 63 431. It served in SE Asia. I worked on it in Spain 77 78 I loved that plane I learned so much, and worked long hours to keep that pig flying.

Posted by TSgt Rob Powell on March 20,2009 | 12:50 PM

Here in Korea, ROKAF still flies the F4D and F4E. For now, anyway. Nothing like seeing that black trail of smoke in the sky and hearing the J79s!!!

Posted by Mark on March 25,2009 | 09:28 AM

Great to see some real heroes responding to this awesome article. I got into the mighty Rhino a little late, E models at Clark in the late eighties. But she took a dozen of us over to Turkey (the long way) for a cameo appearance during Desert Storm. Dropped CBU from medium altitude on some ornry AAA sites up north. Then dropped them off at DM on the way home. I think a very fitting way to end an era for the world's undoubtedly finest fighter. Over thirty years of combat service and still being talked about! Phantoms Phorever!

Posted by Shep on March 31,2009 | 06:47 PM

I enjoyed reading about the Phantom. My interest centers on my brother's service at Ubon in 67-68. I would dearly like to find Lt. Peter Supps who escorted my brother's body home. I was a young girl and at the time didn't speak with him but other members of my family did. I would like to hear from him or anyone else who knew Lt.Francis M. Driscoll. I hope I haven't intruded on your site by this request.
To all of you men who fought for our nation, I humbly give my thanks to you and pray God rewards you richly for your service. If you would like to read about my brother I have a new website www.sliceothepie.com if you are interested.
Again, thank you for defending our nation and forgive me if I have intruded here.
Sincerely,
Ruthie Driscoll EDITORS' REPLY: No intrusion at all. Hope one of our readers will know something.

Posted by Ruth Driscoll on April 7,2009 | 09:31 PM

My life with the F-4 began in August 1967 in the backseat of an F-4B (they still had 4 or 6 of them at MacDill). The ensuing 17 years and 3000 hours in Cs, Ds, Es (hard and soft wings)plus a couple rides in Gs and Recces, including 360 missions in SEA (800 hours)built layer upon layer of love for and experience in the grand old girl. I also had four years in the F-16 at the end of my flying career so can compare a bit. The Phantom was not all that hard to fly - you just had to listen to what she was saying and be a little gentle when her tone dictated. She could reach up and smack you if you did not, but could do all kinds of wonderful things when you asked nicely. From SEA to the Fighter Weapons School - from Holloman to Germany - from Aviano to Squadron Command at Moody, my Phantom and I had all kinds of experiences and,, really became one. She always brought me back home - 16 times with battle damage - even when I pulled some really dumb stunts. You can say what you want about the magic of single engine - I had 35 hours in the F-16 when the fuel pump disintegrated. That is a social significant event in a single engine aircraft! So my career had one more takeoff than landing - but in the F-4 they were even. Even with the gallons of sweat and thousands of curses I left in her, I was truely blessed to have been able to put on old double ugly for so many years.

Posted by Ed Mangis Col USAF (ret) on April 14,2009 | 12:37 AM

I was a lowly AO3 serving on the Coral Sea from 67-69. We were in route to Yankee Station. I got a message that my Grandfather was ill and would probaly pass soon. I didn't really expect it but my emergency leave was approved.Didn't expect to get off the ship quickly either. After A school in Memphis, I had gone to the OMAS School in Pensecola ( Altitude Chamber and Ejection Seat Training). Next thing my Cheif informs me to get my stuff I am going to get a ride in the backseat of a F4-B. The catshot was better than any ride from Disneyland. Went up 60,000 ft great view. Commander Mc Farland wherever you are I still think about you.

AO3 Charles Manning

Posted by Charles Manning on April 15,2009 | 11:38 PM

I loved flying the F-4 Phantom. Flew 227 combat mission in Vietnam, flying out of Korat, Thailand in the F-4E in 1971/72. Then flew all models at Hill AFB, as a Maintenance Flight Test Pilot, to include the D, E, G, RF and a Navy F-4 on a CAT shot off the USS Saratoga. Then flew #8, F-4 with the USAF Thunderbirds on their South America Tour in 1973. Then as the Deputy Commander for Operations at Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany, Flew the F-4E and F-4G from 1982-1984. Got a lot of combat, training, flight test hours in that bird and I had at least one landing for each takeoff I made - She brought me home every time, even with a big hole in a wing.

Posted by Colonel Len Moon (Ret) USAF on April 16,2009 | 09:51 PM

Richard Engle made a reference in an earlier post to his brother being in the flight in which " Capt. Black " was shot down. I assume Richard is talking about my father, Capt. Jon D. Black, who was shot down on Oct. 27th, 1967 while flying an F-4D over " Thud Ridge ", tail number 66-7513. Despite evasive maneuvers, his aircraft was hit with AAA fire ... caught fire ... burned for a while then the tail blew apart. With the rest of the aircraft tumbling out of control ... my father managed to eject. However his GIB, 1 LT Lorenzo Conner was unable to eject and went down with the aircraft ... KIA. My father was captured shortly after he parachuted into the jungle and became a POW.

My father received an interesting e-mail a few months ago, Lorenzo Conner's remains were apparently discovered and identified in the wreckage of 66-7513 in North Vietnam.

After his release from the North Vietnamese, my father continued his pilot career in the Air Force ... being promoted to Lt. Colonel ... and retired in 1980. He currently resides in North Texas ... is still married to my Mom ( 49 years of marriage ! ), they enjoy their pet Schnauzers ... and my father enjoys riding his Harley Davidson motorcycle.

Posted by Christopher C. Black on April 17,2009 | 09:59 PM

Spent 1/70-1/71 at Ubon in the 25th as a weapons loader and would watch them take off at night after burners glowing. Truely awsome plane. Having come from a SAC base and B-52's the Phantom was and still is my favorite plane. Never got to ride in one but got plenty of lumps and bumps on my head crawling around under them. Sad to see such a workhorse go the way of a drone.

Posted by John Bemiss on April 22,2009 | 01:27 PM

Never worked on F4's only 100C's D's and F's plus 102's and A7's
The only story I have about F4's is a sad one. Just before Christmas,many years ago, an F4 was taking off in the evening on a cross country from Davis Monthan with full drops. As they crossed the perimiter fence, they had a double flameout. It hit the back end of a supermarket across the street. Several shoppers died. Both pilots ejected just in time and landed safely in back yards, though one broke his leg falling into an empty swimming pool in the dark.

Posted by bydand on May 10,2009 | 05:36 PM

My only connection to the F-4 was as a young lad in a farm field in southern Indiana.

We lived about 20 miles from NAD Crane (now Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center) & in the mid-60's Phantoms & B-52's would "attack" Crane as part of their training exercises. Sometimes Buff's would be lined up like a string of pearls as far as the eye could seen, stair-stepped to the north-east as they slowly descended to their penetration altitude.

There was a cross-roads a couple of miles from our house that the crews would use as the final IP for their run-in. As luck would have it, that had them flashing right over our fields & our house.

Picture this: you're 11, 12 years old. You're heading back to the house after having checked that the cattle have sufficient feed & water. You see this small dot in the sky off to the northeast, getting bigger by the second. It quickly forms into the drooping nose & upswept wing-tips of a Phantom turning in to make a run on Crane.

I'm out in the middle of this field, jumping up & down & waving my arms. To no avail, of course, the pilot is obviouly preoccupied & doesn't have time for an 11-year-old boy.

Whoosh! He flashes over me maybe 500 feet up & pedal to the metal. I turn to watch him disappear into the distance & then, incredibly, he's waggling his wings at me!

This young hot-shot pilot, flying 500 feet off the treetops & busier'n a one-armed, one-legged paper-hanger in a log-rolling contest, he has seen me & in the middle of everything else he's doing he takes the time to say "hi howdy"!!

I've always had a soft spot for the Phantom. But I will remember that day for as long as I draw breath.

Phantoms Phorever!!

Posted by Brian Davis on May 11,2009 | 01:46 PM

Does anyone out there know of Mick Roth? Mick was the resident "Phantom Phreak" at the Pma museum in the early days. Lived and breathed F-4's, and order every manual that was available on the F-4 for the museum's library. Last I heard was in the '90's, he was writing tech manuals for the Navy at Pt. Mugu; was a great photog, had quite a few pics published. If you know him, please have him get ahole of me; it has to do with the early days at Pima, and Rhodes Arnold, the father of the Pima museum. Thanks, Don Sproule www.donsprl@aol.com

Posted by Don Sproule on May 12,2009 | 08:32 PM

Great read. Spent 66-67 at Ubon in Security Police, most of the time at TOC or on the ramp. Having read the "Steve Canyon" strip for years as a kid the sights and sounds were a real draw. Still miss the smell of jet fuel, afterburners, and the Phantom howl. Saw my last Phantoms fly up at Abbotsford BC in 1983, courtesy of the ND "Happy Hooligans". I knew I would never see them fly again (and I was right), and as they climbed out I had a big lump in my throat.

But I can still remember.

Posted by Tom Casey on May 12,2009 | 12:21 AM

I started on the Phantom in November, 1969, at Nellis. My first assigned aircraft was the FWS CC's bird, 67-7331. I remember one morning preflight, about 0430 sitting in the front seat, power on, canopy closed and working on the forms. It's about 25-30 degrees F. out, and suddenly there's a knock on the side of the canopy....Here's this BG standing on the boarding steps, wondering how "his" aircraft was, as he was going XC later that morning. Some of the interesting things that happened you'd never believe. During exercises in alaska, we'd have 10 minute quick turns, some when the pilots didn't even get out of the birds.....crawl up the ladder, hand each of them a hamburger and coke, hook up fuel, a new drag bag and a couple of start carts. They'd crank and toss the empty coke cans at a couple of trash cans at the side of the taxiway as they exited the alert parking area....from shut down to take off was sometimes less that 15 minutes. We spent hours getting them ready....more hours trying to recover after flying, cussing and beefing about the !#$#$ Mcdonnell Douglas POS....but I'd go back on it if I could.

Posted by Clint Biediger on May 21,2009 | 12:57 AM

I am a private pilot and never flew in the military and I feel a little like an outsider in this forum. The F-4 Phantom to me was the one fighter that could do just about everything and was the most beautiful plane to look at on the ground or in the air, I do not see anything ugly about it, it’s a work of art. When I think about its mach 2 capabilities as far back as 1960 it was a giant leap in military aviation. My 16-year-old son who grew up with posters of F-15’s and F-16’s on his wall used to get tired of me babbling on about the F-4 Phantom. In 2007 my son and I went to the air show at Tinker AFB and there was a QF-4 there that was going to fly in the Heritage Flight and I thought this is great for I had not seen one fly in many years. The Phantom not only flew in the Heritage but also put on a flight demonstration of it’s own and I soon had a son who was an F-4 lover as much if not more than myself. I do hope some Phantom lovers can get and keep some of these great planes flying for many years to come.

Posted by Darrell Crosby on May 29,2009 | 12:05 PM

With the Editors'indulgence, if you want to join the fraternity of Phantom Phans, come on over to the F-4 Phantom II Society website: www.f4phantom.com. We print a dynamite magazine (SMOKE TRAILS) and have annual PhanCons where we meet other Phans, tour facilites and have a great time telling war stories, etc. Bob Kay (mentioned in the article) is our Society president.

Posted by Steve Billings on June 14,2009 | 11:35 PM

I was the Dedicated Crew Chief on F4-D 66-456 "The Gambler"
is what I heard it was named in Udorn. It was my first jet I crewed (prior AF in Food Service 75-79) re-uped in 82 and cross trained to Tactical Aircraft Maintenance. Let me tell you that I loved working the F4. It was a "mans" jet. You can beat the hell out of it and it still flies. I worked the F4 for 3 years at Homestead AFB Fl. Then we got the plastic plane F16 A & B models. However before my F4 was sent to the Guard in Niagra Falls NY, I was able to get a ride in my jet. All I can say was "Awesome" . However I felt like shit when I got out of the cockpit, I would do it again in a heartbeat. If anyone would happen to come across any info or pictures of tail number F4D 66-456 please email it to me: f4dchief@hotmail.com. Thank you very much. thank you veterans for serving your our country.

Posted by Joe Boudreau on July 17,2009 | 10:26 PM

The F4 and the F104 are the two most incredible looking aircraft ever built. When living in Ft. Worth it was always a thrill to see the Phantoms flying over. Hear the roar . . . follow the smoke trail . . . and there it was. Yep, they left quite a trail behind them.

Posted by Doug Davis on July 29,2009 | 12:22 AM

I met the Phantom upon assignment to the F-4 Division of Service Test, Naval Air Test Center, Patuxent River, Maryland in 1968. As a lowly AQF3 (Aviation Fire Control Technician, Third Class) I grew to love the plane ... it was ok to work on, but miracle of miracles, our division was short of RIOs, and several of us techs got to fly ... sometimes on real test missions, but most frequently as a passenger while a desk jockey from the Pentagon came down on the weekend to get in his flight time! Spent alot of time punching holes in the sky ... I'll never forget the USMC pilot who told me that flying over the mountains of Virginia was alot like Cambodia, except that when you looked down you didn't see many parachutes in the treetops!

I remember flying with CDR John Rademacher ... the man could make that airplane do anything ... he thrilled me regularly. I also flew a bit with CDR C.A.L. Swanson, another great pilot who went on to become CAG (Commander, Air Group) Seven, on board the USS Forrestal, CV59.

The Phantom joined and left the fleet with the Be-Devillers of VF-74. I was always proud to wear the Phantom Phixer AND Phantom Pherret patches on my flight jacket!

Posted by Andrew Kleeger on August 4,2009 | 05:26 PM

When we were living in a two story house in Dunbar, WV, approximately 4 years after I had served with a Navy A-6 Intruder outfit, I was shaving one morning when I heard the unmistakable approach of an F-4 Phantom into Charleston's airport and National Guard field. I hurried to the window to verify it was indeed a Phantom and my immediate thought was "what's an F-4 Phantom doing in Charleston?". Came to later find out it was Jon McBride flying in to visit his parents who lived in the Charleston, WV area. I always have and always will love the sounds those J-79's make on approach as the pilot adjust this throttles - the screeches, moans and howls give me goose bumps just thinking about them.

Posted by Jim Wetzel on September 27,2009 | 11:38 AM

Are there any photos of the ground crew of the first flight tests at Edwards AFB, c1959? I was young (maybe 12) at the time. It seems my father told me he was crew chief for the first 4 F4s under test. His name was E.G.(Gerry) Morrison.

I remember going to air shows out there. I have pics of the Thunderbirds flying F100s and the 2 remaining X-15s, taken with my trusty Kodak Brownie camera.

Any help would be great. Thanks

Glenn Morrison
EDITORS' REPLY: Start with the Public Affairs Office at Edwards. They will direct you to possible sources.

Posted by Glenn Morrison on September 29,2009 | 10:34 PM

I worked F-4E's at Korat, 70-71 in Weapons Control with the 388th Combat Support Group, 388th Avionics Maintenance Squadron. I loved the old Phantom II and enjoyed debriefing the GIB's after their missions. When I first got to Korat, we had both F-4E's and 105's and 105 Wild Weasels. We became a full F-4E wing (388th TFW) along with a few 105 Wild Weasels later. Of course this was pre-F-4 Wild Weasel days. The AN/APQ 120 Radar sure needed a lot of maintenance. It brings back a lot of memeories to read the blogs here. I spent my last two years at MacDill with the 1st TAC Fighter Wing (E models) and left the AF in 1973. Sometimes I feel like our old F-4s are now considered "ancient" along with the old P-51's and other "old time" fighters.

Posted by Bill Person on October 9,2009 | 10:25 AM

I was a Crew Chief on the F-4c at Bergstrom AFB Austin Tx in 1982 with the 67th AGS 45th AMU. It was a Rcon unit. The 45th AMU was created for the training of recon pilots. We had pilots from other countries who were being trained on them also. Every pilot I spoke to loved the F-4. And as a Crew Chief so did I. It had its issues but it was a workhorse and was very dependable. We called it the "Leaking Pig" back then. I am sad that they are gone and I miss them. I am so glad though I had the opportunity to work on them and be a part of their history.

Posted by Scott Kollowa on December 2,2009 | 04:15 PM

when we were in trouble the sound of an f4 on final approch is still music to my ear.it scared the crap out of charlie.

Posted by 1ST/CAV/69 on December 30,2009 | 09:15 PM

Good article, but it does make me a bit sad. Have a little over 3300 hrs in the Rhino. Kept me alive over Viet Nam when there was nothing left of aircraft except to cockpit area. Got hit doing about 1.3M around 23K. Boattail fell off, followed by the radar, the engines and then the wings. Fuel bladders broke and caught fire and the spine broke. Glad to say the Rube Goldberg Martin-Baker still worked after all of that. Will always remember after coming home from my free room and board in Hanoi, I was driving down I-55 from Wisconsin to Alabama. About fifty miles north of Springfield, IL, I noticed these two thin dark lines in the sky in my rear view mirror. Looks just like F-4s I thought. In about a minute, they were F-4s. I wondered what they were doing in central Illinois, not knowing that the Springfield ANG had just gotten their "new" F-4s, the first ANG unit to do so (an outstanding organization that I was to spend some ten years with later in my flying career). Sadly, the unit was "bracked" about a year ago. I am now chief engineer at Boeing for special programs on the F-15. In that capacity, I go to Holloman often and see the orange F-4s on the ramp.While I understand the need, I am saddened by the ultimate fate of such a fine aircraft that so dominated its era. The F-4 was my first love and remains my favorite. Its fate reminds us all that time moves on and aerial combat is a young man's (and young aircraft) business, but I still have dreams about flying fighters. Bill "Tiny" Reich

Posted by Bill Reich on January 13,2010 | 03:35 PM

Looking for tail # 373.

Posted by on January 30,2010 | 08:06 PM

Chu Lai Airbase, 4/69-2/70 was a 10-month adventure with four great F4 squadrons. VMFA-115, 232, 314 and 334. For a lowly E4 radiotelegraph operator, this was a great time with all of them coming and going. Many hours volunteering for runway security just to watch the F4's. Several times the crash crew staged for a damaged Phantom returning and if it came down in one piece, the pilot and RIO usually walked away. Didn't matter, gear up or gear down, over or under the morest cable either, rain or shine, day or night. It was a massive powerhouse to behold. From a non-pilot military air enthusiast, not many compare. Especially likes watching the 'hot-pad' duty crews scramble for air support missions as they would be less than 10 minutes from call to full AB charging down the runway loaded with 'calling cards' to let Charlie know who'd been there. They are greatly missed but will live on in the memories of all of us who admired and were captivated by the Phantom.

Posted by Paul Cavnar on February 15,2010 | 09:45 PM

Give props to modern fighters, but if you were the enemy and you saw a Phantom coming at you, you would be scared to death! There was never a meaner-looking airplane in the world! And it's the last true air machine built by man: you have to fly it with your feet! (Pilots will know what I am talking about.....none of this electric-jet b.s. for the flight controls.) And the J-79s were the toughest engines in the world! You could mash 'em around pretty well, and they'd still come back for more.

Posted by Mike Poore on February 16,2010 | 07:25 AM

Looking for pictures of an F4E Phantom Tail #373 of the 366th Gunfighters Sq. 1971-1972.

Posted by on February 24,2010 | 02:17 PM

I worked Naval Air Rework Facility at NAS North Island San Diego for over 30 years. I remember the F-4: we took the F-4B and reworked them to produce the F-4N, the F-4J to the F-4S, and we did some RF-4s. We had three shifts working around the clock. You could hear them taking off they were loud! Two J79'S at full afterbuner turns heads even inside Bldg. #94. Best job I ever had working on F-4, F-14 and F-18 Aircraft. 1974 - 2004 Retired!

Posted by Felipe Garza on March 7,2010 | 09:55 PM

USMC Aircraft Electrician VMFA 251 MCAS Beaufort 1967 then VMFA 115 Chu Lai RVN May 14 1968 through end of May 1969. Loved working on the F4B. Recall birds being grounded because of nose gear falling off while we were in Puerto Rico -- worked on 9th oldest F4B in Chu Lai (great hangar queen) and proving that a cracked fuel hose was allowing fuel transferred from wing tank to fill internal fuel cell "could happen" -- bet required that I put wing back together if I was wrong!

In October 1987 moved from Chicago to a new home on far west side of Springfield IL - - first Saturday morning woke to the unforgettable sound of F4s landing at the airport. Later the squadron got F16s and didn't loop over our development.

Wound up as crew chief and flight test engineer in H34s (HMM 774) when I returned to US in 1969 but will never forget my time as Phantom Phixer -- my Nevada USMC Veteran license plate is F4FXR!

Bill Uffelman Las Vegas NV

Posted by Bill Uffelman on April 11,2010 | 09:16 PM

I worked the J79 engines that powered the F4 Phantom both at RAF Alconbury 1968-1982 then SJ in 1983. I retired in 1989 after 4 hard years at RAF Lakenheath working for a E9 Muse supporting an unsupportable unreliable P&W engine powering the F111F aircraft. Then expanded my career by supporting and managing the J79 Worldwide TIGERS operators who will fly the F4E Phantom to at least 2015 plus. Great aircraft poered by a great engine.

Posted by Mike Solon - AKA J79 Engine on August 3,2010 | 09:26 AM

Being a crew chief on an F-4 Phantom, I thought it was the best. I had not seen an F-14 yet.

Posted by Robert on September 30,2010 | 05:07 PM

Started in the F4 at MacDill in 1967 as a PSO right out of UPT. Last flight was with the ANG unit at Kelly AFT in 1984. In between, I was fortunate also to fly the D, E (hard wings & slats), F (delivery to the Luftwaffe), G (as a test pilot at Hill where they were built), and RF (also as a test pilot at Hill). I flew almost 3000 hours in the Phantom with 400+ combat missions on three SEA tours (Cam Ranh Bay and two at Ubon). I also had the terrifying experience of instructing in the F4 for 2 years with the Imperial Iranian Air Force (pre-revolution) and the Egyptian Air Force for a year. After all that, I never experienced anything more serious with the aircraft than an occasional flight control malfunction and never even shut down an engine. What a great airplane; I miss her.

Posted by Mickey Baity on January 9,2011 | 02:29 PM

The Phantom still flies for the the USAF and not as a remote control target either.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123237870

Posted by jon spencer on January 28,2011 | 02:53 PM

After turning eggs (Cook)in my first enlistment in the USAF, I came back and cross trained into Tactical Aircraft Maintenance. My first station after tech school was Homestead AFB Fl. Thats where I met my F4D, tail number 66-456 "The Gambler" I was told it was called in Udorn. I even got a ride in my jet,with the pilot assigned to my jet and my Assistant Crew Chief launching me out. What a ride! Got sick as a dog, and it felt like someone beat me up. But if I ever had another chance to go up in the F4 I'd do it in a heartbeat. What a jet! The last I heard my F4 went to the Niagra ANG. It may be on the sea floor by now. However I do remember battery changes in mid summer on swing shift, what a nightmare. Would love to chat with fellow "Piggy" Crew Chiefs. Email me so we can chat about old Phantom bites.
Joe Boudreau (Ret USAF) Jacksonville, Fl

Posted by Joe Boudreau (Ret USAF) on June 25,2011 | 09:13 AM

I believe the Turkish Air force still flies the F4S.

Posted by william Neal on August 26,2011 | 08:58 PM

Great article on a magnificent aircraft!

For fans of the F-4 Phantom and the Blue Angels, I have released a new book called "Phantoms and Angels" which details the historic 1969-1973 period when the Blue Angels flew the F-4 Phantom

Check it out at:

http://www.phantomsandangels.com

Phantoms Forever!

Posted by Emmanuel Rodriguez on November 7,2011 | 02:18 PM

Great stuff..............I was crew chief of 67-296 @korat from 12/69-12/71.(f-4E record hours for one month 131.9) I loved the bird and my time @ korat.It is hard to know 40 years have passed.
Sgt.Virgil T.Hall

Posted by on November 13,2011 | 01:34 PM

Great stuff..............I was crew chief of 67-296 @korat from 12/69-12/71.(f-4E record hours for one month 131.9) I loved the bird and my time @ korat.It is hard to know 40 years have passed.
Sgt.Virgil T.Hall

Posted by on November 13,2011 | 01:34 PM

What a great story! I did not fly on this great bird but I certainly spent a lot of time working their weapons systems. As a Navy Ordnanceman of VF151/USS MIDWAY CV 41, I will say that the F4S models we flew were high maintenance but WHAT A RUSH! They actually did very well against the F14s at TOPGUN when our pilot managed to "over stress" the Phantom pretty badly. My most wonderful times at sea; watching these birds take-off and catch the wire are still fresh in my mind. I once passed by Davis-Monthan AFB and saw some of these Phantoms sitting quietly with a look of sorrow...wait, that was me! Now I know what my grandfather meant when he said that seeing a P51 on display made him have trouble swallowing while holding back tears.

Posted by Art Michel on February 10,2012 | 05:00 PM

Anyone work on RF 67-443 or 67-041? I was a crew chief on them at Ton Son Nhut AB in Vietnam in 68-69. It was quite a plane. But removing and re-installing that nose cone for the camera and radar technicians still gives me nightmares. I was 5'5" tall and left handed and it turned out, it was the perfect height to reach in and remove and re-install. So naturally, they had me doing it a lot.

And that battery on the right hand side below the back seat. A crew chief had to first, learn how to stand on his head, contort his body and take it out and put one back in working with his hands behind his back. It was best to get help, to have one mechanic hold you up and twisted.

Posted by Aime Casavant on February 12,2012 | 07:03 PM

I would like to see all of the F-4 on guard duty on the ft gate of every air force base.

Posted by Lloyd Zufelt on February 13,2012 | 05:44 PM

Phantom Phixer for 12 years! Two tours at George AFB, CA; One tour at Kadena AB, Okinawa Japan; and 1 Four year tour at Clark AB, PI, 1987-1991, May, One month before Mt Pinatubo!
I, both loved and hated the Phantoms! They were Beautiful, graceful, but a pain in the neck, back, head and arms! I will never forget them!

Posted by John R. Stoddard Jr. on February 25,2012 | 04:23 AM

I truly enjoyed the comment about a crew chief having to learn to stand on his head in order to change the aircraft battery! On all air force models except the RF-4C!

Posted by John R. Stoddard Jr. on February 25,2012 | 04:28 AM

As an 81MM Mortar FO with Delta Co 1stBn, 5th Marines in 1968 there was never a more beautiful and terrifing sight as seeing a Phantom high in the sky directly over us , flip on it's back and come screaming down on us for close air support. It felt like you could almost reach out and touch them and the clouds that formed at the wing roots was like magic. It was remarkable that the NVA/VC would stand and shoot their weapons throughtout the attack during ordance delivery and after. Thank you all you brave and skilled extraordinary MEN for your service and sacrifices for your actions saved our butts countless times. Semper Fi!

Posted by James Lennon on March 7,2012 | 09:17 PM

Time for an Update: The GAF retires their fleet at the end of 2012 and already is selling exclusively parts and engines to MTU. Egypt has dropped out of TIGERS (the J79 Group) in 2011. Greece, Japan, South Korea and Turkey will all fly to or past 2020 with some predicting 2025 or even as far out as 2040 that they will fly. The limiting factor will be the airframe parts available. I think there are enough engine parts around to keep the engines operating past 2025. The cost of operations may also be a factor as the Phantom burns far more fuel then modern aircraft however that may be off set by the cost of purchasing a newer aircraft and the cost to maintain the newer ones. If they can make the Phantom smart bomb and missle capable with modern radar it could be a contender going forward. Word on the street says the F4 Phatom 2020 upgraded model has allot of modern features to include a glass cockpit, never seen one but heard the HAF and TurAF both have the 2020 upgrade model. The J79-15 powered aircraft are soon to disappear except for the Collins Foundation F4D but in another year there will not be any mission J79-15 engines operating. The remaining J79-17 models could stick around until there is no longer interest to operate them as there is plenty of parts to be found around the globe.




Mike S. USAF (Ret) SNCO, RAF Alconbury 1968-1983, J79 from 1968 to current support level Worldwide J79 consultant

Posted by Mike (J79ENG) Solon on March 13,2012 | 10:13 AM

My Dad flew the F-4 in VN. Stations at Saigon his first tour and Cam Rhan Bay the second. He died of lung cancer at the age of 39, after returning from VN in 1968. His last duty station was Davis Monthan AFB, his name was Dick Johnson.

My Dad loved that plane. My sisters and I were always mesmerized watching him talk about his plane, always the backside of his palm mimicing the flight path. The day he flew over our house near the base in Tucson and he dipped his wings at his girls...one of my best childhood memories.

Thank you for your details about the F-4. I only knew the smell of the flight suit and the sound of the engines, but to this day feel her in my soul as well. Always the sound of freedom...

I married a Titian missle launch officer so I was so blessed to live my whole life in the AF. Even now, with husband retired 20 years, those stories my Dad told with the smooth and strong hand gestures are as real to me as anything.

Thank you for filling in the blanks that I could not have understood as a kid. Thank you for telling your stories, because I missed out on so many of his. He like so many, taken too soon.

But he did love that plane, and the men he flew with. When he died, there was standing room only at the base chapel. A sea of green flight suits and the faint smell of fuel. He was a great man, missed every day of my life. Thank you for bringing him back to life, however briefly, with your words. God bless...

Michelle Johnson Schubring

Posted by Michelle Johnson on April 7,2012 | 02:38 AM

Great article! It describes flying the F-4 just as I remember it. The F-4 was a handfull to fly, but fly it did--despite its ugliness, bent stabilator, and dinky bent wings. (It's probably a good thing the wings were so small, otherwise they would have hung more bombs on it.) The F-4 proved that anything could fly, given enough thrust. As a RTU instructor, I actually enjoyed landing from the back seat--it was stick time (even though I couldn't see where I was going). I flew all three Air Force versions (C/D/E). The E model had the gun, but the C and D performed better as long as you didn't get into a turning fight.

Posted by Steve Swails (LTC retired) on April 24,2012 | 10:44 PM

I had an Airfix model of a Phantom when I was growing up during the 60s. I liked it for its looks and I dont think any fighter plane made since is better looking. Living in New Zealand I never got to see a real one The RNZAF flew Skyhawks which I think were designed during the Vietnam war area. Dad was an electrical tech working on Grumman Avengers during WW2 in the Solomon Is and I got to see one of those flying as a warbird museum plane.

Posted by Peter Creagh on April 27,2012 | 02:48 AM

44 years ago on February 29, 1968 my bother, 1st Lt. USAF F-4 pilot Francis M. Driscoll was KIA. He still lives in my heart and my memory. May we never forget those that gave the "Ultimate Sacrifice" for our freedom. John 3:16-17

Posted by Pastor Jack Driscoll on June 10,2012 | 09:10 PM

True story: As a 15 year old, I would spend countless hours at the approach end of the runway at NAS Pt. Mugu where my Air Force father was attached to VX-4. We would watch The various aircraft taking off and landing. My favorite moment? An F-4 doing a ballistic takeoff. Right before his transfer to the Pentagon in June, 1970, he and I spent the fastest, and slowest, half hour of my life flying a clean F-4J at Mach two off the California coast. Amazing ride. But the fun part of the flight was hitting a brick wall when he took it out of afterburner and the split S to the ocan that followed. A memory I shall never forget and always cherish.

Posted by Scott Markey on June 19,2012 | 09:21 PM

I really enjoyed reading all the comments about the F4's. I worked on them as a crew chief from 1964 at McDill, AFB and then Nellis, AFB in 1965-1966 then in 1966-1967 at Cam Ranh, AB RVN with the 557th TFS, 12th TFW. I then went to Seymore Johnson, NC in 1967-1969 then back to Nellis to work on the Hogs again 1969-1970. All on the F4C,D's and E's. I had the task of going to Davis Monthan in 1996 after I had retired from the USAF and was working for a civilian aircraft corporation. My task was to get two Navy C130's taken apart and shipped backed to Charlotte, NC. After getting to DM and being escorted to the aircraft that we were picking up, my eyes and heart went to line after line of F4's all sealed up from the elements in the desert. I knew there were all sorts of aircraft models there, but, seeing the F4's touched my heart and still does to this day.
Like so many others have attested, I put a lot of hours on the F4's before going to work on the F111A/E's at Nellis and at RAF Upper Heyford, AB in the UK. I said a lot of things that were not "good" about the F4's, but, I would go back to work on them today if I were able. I saw the aircraft return from missions in RVN and thought to myself, how in the world did the pilot and WSO make it back in this hog with all the damage to it. I loved that aircraft and I guess I always will to my last breath. Thanks to all the good comments and thank you all for your dedicated service to our country.

Posted by Van Marlowe, USAF Msgt, Retired on June 22,2012 | 10:11 PM

A salute the F4 and those of you who flew them…in memory of my dad, 2nd Lt. USAF pilot (GIB) William V. Grothe killed in an F4 crash on the gunnery range in Libya, Feb 4th 1967. I earned my own ticket to fly recently, always carried 2 photos of him: one with the both of us right before he was deployed and the other was the last photo ever taken of dad...a proud young man dressed for battle on the tarmac with a firm hold on the ladder of the Phantom he went down in. Like all of you, he really loved to fly and the F4 was the "dreamboat" to get up there. Thanks for sharing your F4 stories and memories.

Posted by William Grothe Teeter on June 22,2012 | 11:03 PM

I'm not sure that seeing the QF-16's in action will be quite the same as the mighty F-4.

Nice to see more and more articles appearing about the F-4 now that its life is well and truly in its twilight years and disappearing from foreign air forces. You can find more here:

http://www.theaviationindex.com/aircraft-types/mcdonnell-douglas-f-4-phantom-ii

There are some quite interesting ones there.

Posted by Air Enthusiast on July 1,2012 | 07:05 PM

Great article!

Flew over 300 missions out of Chu Lai, VMFA-314, 1968-69. Marine Corps Front seater and maintenance type. It brought me and my squadron mates back from many a close call.

Brother in law, P.K.R., USAF was shot down by ground fire in an F4, over Hanoi. P.O.W., returned in prisoner exchange. He was a Misty FAC in two previous tours in Vietnam.

Recently visited the Smithsonian and was pleased to see a painting of a Vietnam vintage F4B as the cover girl for USMC Aviation centennial celebration display. My squadron too.

Again, great article and most of all Thanks!

Posted by William Manley on July 13,2012 | 04:02 PM

I wish I could afford to rescue and maintain one of these F-4s. I would be a happy man.

Posted by Stan Sikorski on July 14,2012 | 10:34 PM

I was stationed at Torrejon AB, Spain from 1968 to 1974. F4E 69-261 was brand new out of the factory and assigned to Torrejon. I was the first crew chief assigned to the great bird. Spent many hours TDY with it, working on it and allowing many pilots to fly my baby. When I was ressigned to Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ, I never saw that F4 again and have always missed it and looked at many pictures, looking for it

Ron Shaw
SMSgt, 1ST Sgt (RET)
USAF 1961-1986

Posted by Ron Shaw, SMSgt (RET) on July 17,2012 | 07:53 PM

Ralph Wetterhahn and I were squadron mates and roommates in the 555 TFS at Ubon. Does anyone have his email address?

Thanks,

Tom.


Hi Tom, we'll forward your message on to Ralph.

Best,

The editors

Posted by Tom Boyd on August 1,2012 | 05:53 PM

Nice article for a awesome airplane. And interesting comments, as well. Here in Greece (Hellas) , our Hellenic Air Force is still fully operating Phantoms (upgraded F-4E and original RF-4E models) . Till 2005 , also (original , non upgraded) ex ANG F-4E were flying. HAF F-4 AUPs' are serving with upgraded avionics ,new radar, targeting pod, AIM 120Bs' (lighter and more leathal than AIN-7s), Aim-9Ls' and smokeless J-79s'! They serve both roles, Air to ground as well as Air to Air , like in their first era. Especially their present primary Air to Air mission, I dare to say is the same one that the airplane was originaly designed and builded for USNavy, the 3 hours high altitude-high speed CAP (combat patrol) 300 n. miles around it's carrier! We, Greeks, consider that we have the best F-4s' ever equiped and operated on both roles, as well as the best ''Ghost'' pilots (fantomades, we call them)!

Posted by Manolis on August 8,2012 | 05:59 AM

Just a guess: Phantoms on picture are German F-4F ?

Posted by Manolis on August 8,2012 | 06:01 AM

Before they started making QF-4s we used to make QF-86s from retired F-86s brought back from Korea. The QF-86s were brutal to fly remote, underpowered and prone to tail strikes on take-off.

Posted by Lou on October 26,2012 | 09:00 PM

Why do people say the F-4 is ugly? I never understood this. The F-4 is without doubt the best looking plane the US has ever made. It looks tough, mean, fast, the swept down tailplane at the back is awesome. The only part of the plane that needs a facelift is the underside of the nose. The older F-4s that didn't have the pod under the nose look much better. Then again, I also think the A-10 is the second best looking plane ever!

Posted by ggm on October 28,2012 | 08:26 AM

Thank you for the F-4 recognition--great article. Having been assigned to VF-31 as an AQF Phantom Phixer coming from Bankston, Ia., to a stellar fighter squadron doing two cruises the latter to Tonkin Gulf. A memorable 3 yrs of my life and given the opportunity of 4 hrs backseat time. To this date in my life I will never forget this bird fully loaded for a cat shot weighing out at 48to 52k and coming off the cat at 150 knots plus--my vocal cords still rattle!

Posted by dandaly on November 5,2012 | 08:54 PM

My Dad flew F-4c's out of Tan Son Nhut in 1967. His name was Capt. Arthur "Terry" Dardeau from Ville Platte, La. He returned home when his brother was shot down in an f105 in the north. He was Col. Oscar M. Dardeau. My dad loved his plane. He kept with the F-4 after the war into the late seventies at Bergstrom AFB. He never flew anything but a pickup truck after that but you could tell he missed it when he would take me to airshows. I was and remain now very proud of him and his brother. Thank you all for your service. Dad died in October of 2010 in his hometown of VP, La.

Posted by Sean Dardeau on November 21,2012 | 09:48 PM

@Aime Casavant. I was the Crew Chief on 67-443 at Key Field ANGB in Meridian, Ms until she went to the boneyard. We got her from Zweibrucken AB in the mid '80s. Went to the boneyard and converted to a QF-4 on 4 Aug 2011. When I got in I worked with some of the "Old Guys" who also worked the F-4's at Ton Son Nhut.

Posted by Wesley Seal on November 28,2012 | 03:55 PM

Manolis, the F4's pictured are from Holloman AFB near Alamogordo NM. The 49th TFW had a joint training mission with the German AF and TDY'd to Germany. The Germans also trained at Holloman for a time. This all occured after I was stationed there. Hope that helps...

Posted by john j gosnik on December 9,2012 | 12:39 PM

Flew F-4Ds as a WSO with:
20th TFS, George AFB, 1975
92nd TFS, RAF Bentwaters UK, 1975-78
80th TFS, Kunsan AB Korea, 1979
Kansas ANG, McConnell AFB, 1985-90

Ended up with 1,800+ hours in the Phantom (800+ in the F-111 in between). Retired from the Air Force in 1996 as a LTC in the Pentagon. But the best years of my life was spent in the back seat of the F4. And I still love that bird.

Posted by Steve "Nurd" Shiell on December 19,2012 | 03:00 AM

Thanks for the article. 73-1165 drone mentioned in the article had my fingerprints all over it from 86-88 at SJ, 335th Com/Nav tech. Bear to work on but such a great experience and fun. My incentive ride at Nellis was worth the enlistment!

Posted by John Anderson on December 31,2012 | 10:54 PM

When I was assigned to the 49th TFW at Spangdahlem AB in 1966, we soon began our transition from F-105's to the mighty F-4...At the same time, I crosstrained from a load crew with the 9th squadron to weapons maintenance with the 349th MMS...I spent many a long, cold night pulling and reinstalling missile launchers on the flight line...Weapons systems checks with an AWM-13 while alternating warm-up time behind a taxiing F-4 are still fresh in my memory too...

When the F4-E model flies in from Holloman to the Houston airshow every October, I like to think that some of my blood stains are still in the missile launcher cavities from my scraped knuckles...I wonder if the statute of limitations still applies if I was to admit to using Juicy Fruit on the forward inner nutplate on a couple of those launcher bolts...

It will be a sad day indeed when the last QF-4 goes nose down into the desert floor or the Gulf of Mexico...I hope they outlive me and I plan to live forever...

Posted by Ben Young on January 11,2013 | 11:05 PM

Indeed it will be a sad day when the last U.S. F-4 is gone, but reading a post above they will still be around in service in other countries for alot of years to come. As for me, started out on E's, At SJ in 1971 then Ubon with E's and D's and everything else they had on the flight line which encluded the AC-130. Then to DaNang to work on host A/C until the place closed down then back to Ubon. After another full tour there, off to Zweibrucken Germany to work on Rf-4C's, after my sunny tour there streight to Luke for an eye opener on the "C" model. Being a Elect. was one way to earn all the big money the Air Force payed us, HA Ha. After a couple other after getting out, I landed a job with the Navy being a Tech Rep on the F-J,S at MCAS Kaneohe, HI. Now Retired Living In Buckeye AZ, Loved all the F-4's

Posted by Jim Lawson on January 20,2013 | 03:04 AM

Need Help re: Phantom landing accident on canted deck at night on USS Coral Sea during westpac 1965 0r on the USS Constellation in first 6 mos. of 1966. I witnessed this and many of us ran over and threw our flashlights overboard to mark the spot. Obviously to no avail. They found the RIO but had been killed. I need any info for VA claim I'm working on.
Does any body no the date or Squadron that was involved? I was an AO3 w/ VF151 at the time. Please contact me at ironmike417@aol.com or my cell Phone 774-392-1520

Posted by Mike DiBuono on March 19,2013 | 05:57 PM

wow what can i say'what can i give to see the f-4 fly i was in vf-103(f-4j) then (vx-4) a-4 f-4 f-14 f-18 then (vf-84),then (vfa-195/131) then (vf-101)then i went back to vf-84 that was my last command. thank you for a great place to talk about the flying bee
AO2 Mark Cornett

Posted by mark cornett on April 4,2013 | 01:13 AM

Brilliant ending to a captivating story. "So now you know..."

Posted by Derek McCabrey on April 26,2013 | 05:12 PM

In 1961, Sageburner I had a GIB name of Hite when it went down in their speed runs. Wenamed our athletic trophy after them in memoriam. Weliked the F4 so much at NWEF Albuquerque sailors reenlisted ( 2 for sure)just to get a supersonic ride in it over White Sands with USMC LTCol Stewart (our project pilot)a the
controls. Word was he flat knew what he was doing in that airplane.

Posted by Charlie Myers on May 4,2013 | 12:12 PM

I worked F-4G & E's at Clark A.B. in the P.I. For 3 years 1987 to 1990.

Posted by William K. King on May 13,2013 | 12:58 AM

I remember being at AFROTC field training at WPAFB back in '88 when they dumped us out in a strip of woods for a day/night of "survival" training. Me and one of the other guys in my flight were about 10 yards from a berm looking at a pond and wondering if there were any fish in it. There was a rumble off in the distance somewhere, and then out of nowhere, two F-4s roared past us on the berm - turned out it was an active runway. Thought my head was going to explode.

Posted by Keith on May 19,2013 | 07:52 PM

Hit my Airman noggin' more than once on the F4-C/D wing pylons holding the ECM pods our shop maintained at USAFE Spang in the mid 70s. Those birds didn't seem to want to move at all when I did that, so I STOPPED DOING THAT, lol! Oh, yeah; mean look, black smoke trails, engine noise coming & going (especially loud during a runup while parked in a TAB V shelter), fuel/hydraulic fluid smells, great memories all.

Posted by Dan Sutterfield on June 8,2013 | 11:19 PM

As a guy who crewed a number of F-4s (F4C 63-417, F4D 66-723, F4E 69-6303, F4G 70-6561 and finally with Lockheed at Edwards AFB YF4E 65-713). This story is bittersweet. The Phantom served us so well. Awe the smell of burning JP4 exhaust and roar of two J-79s...

Posted by Jon Agner on June 15,2013 | 02:09 AM

The paint job is disgusting. If the AF is gonna blow these beautiful birds out of the sky, at least give them their dignity of Vietnam era camo or Desert Storm camo - not the horrible contractor paint scheme...

Posted by Jon Agner on June 15,2013 | 02:40 AM

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