Inside a Flying Fortress
Look inside one of the only surviving B-17Gs with a combat record.
- By Roger Connor and Christopher Moore. Photographs by Eric Long and Mark Avino.
- AirSpaceMag.com, May 27, 2011
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The radio operator manned his relatively spacious position between the bomb bay and the waist gun compartment. Looking aft, he could see the top of the ball turret.
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Comments (21)
The initial strategy of unescorted daylight bombing came to an end after the October 14, 1943 Schweinfurt attack which had a loss rate of 32%. There was a four month cessation of deep penetration raids into Germany until drop tank equipped P-51s were available as escorts.
Source: Combat Studies Institute Military History Anthology, U.S. Army Command and General Staff College Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
Posted by Mark Breeding on May 28,2011 | 03:49 AM
The caption suggests that the unescorted daylight raids into Germany were difficult but successful.
The October 1943 Schweinfurt raid was the last use of that strategy. A 32% loss rate resulted in a four month wait until drop tank equipped P-51 Mustangs were available to protect the bombers, then the deep penetration raids were renewed.
Posted by Mark Breeding on June 1,2011 | 12:30 PM
notice almost no ifr instruments,
because we flew mostly vfr formation.
my 172 had more dials than i had in a b17 1943-1945
Posted by harold nabson on June 22,2011 | 05:11 PM
Not mentioned in the article: Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby is currently on display at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force.
The talented and dedicated Restoration Staff of the National Museum of the UASAF is currently working on 2 B-17s: Memphis Belle and Swooze.
For several years, working plans have been, when one or the other is ready for display, Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby will move to the Smithsonian. When the Memphis Belle is ready, she will be given a special place of honor at the USAF museum.
Posted by Charles Plott on June 22,2011 | 06:47 PM
I remember reading about the Mustang-originally built for the British in the US - The original Mustang engine was replaced with a Rolls Royce engine resulting in much greater speed. The upgrade resulted in a more effective protection for the B-17G's reducing the heavy loss rate. Hap Arnold believed the B-17 was so superior it didn't need long range escorts. Apparently this was the reason for such appalling loses. The famous WW1 pilot Tommy Hitchcock pushed Arnold to use the new faster Mustangs as escorts- but Arnold took forever to finally approve their use.
Posted by Clark Frankel on June 23,2011 | 01:59 PM
A little overstated. While the B-17 was indeed a remarkable aircraft, there were others. The B-24 could carry more bombs further and faster. The Avro Lancaster could carry twice as many bombs to Berlin, and by 1945 was (more-or-less)as accurate at night as the B-17 was by day. The B-17 dropped 400,000 out of 1,400,000 tons of bombs delivered by the USAAC, or 28%. The RAF dropped an almost equal number. The B-17 just had better PR.
It also wasn't there at the "onset of the fighting", which began in September 1939 in Europe, and even earlier in Asia. It wasn't there at the onset of the USAAC fighting either, those first raids in 1942 used other aircraft borrowed from the RAF (Hudson's I think).
Still, a terrific airplane that along with its brave crews did its part to defeat Nazi tyranny.
Posted by Paul Sergeant on June 23,2011 | 02:15 PM
The contribution of strategic bombing to final victory is and always has been overblown. Even with the Norden bombsight, accuracy was so marginal that a fair portion of a city or town had to be flattened (and hundreds or thousands of civilians killed and injured) in order to guarantee taking out one factory. The tactical fighter-bombers were able to make a more telling contribution (at far less cost to both our forces and non-combatants) by concentrating on transportation and other infrastructure targets. Without those, a factory is pretty useless to the military.
Posted by George Scherer on June 23,2011 | 07:12 PM
It is hard to immagine equipment that provided such limited protection and concern for the crews comfort. Then, as I remember well, it just wasen't a consideration, winning the war trumped all. The positions of tail gunner and bottom ball turret gunner were especially uncomfortabl and I believe the bottom ball turret gunner was expendable in the event of a belly(wheels up) landing. I wonder, how you break the news to a crew member that he was not going to survive the landing.
Non the less, I believe the 17 was/is a beautiful bird.
I have had the privilage of being in an actual aircraft and sneaked a sit in the pilots seat. Thanks for the show. Have you got a P 38?
Posted by Laura Darsch on June 24,2011 | 11:53 AM
William 'Doc' Hospers who founded the Vintage Flying Museum in Fort Worth Texas, and owned 'Chuckie' a B-17G Pathfinder, was one of the pilots who flew Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby to the museum. Doc passed away in 2010 and his airplane has been sold to the Military Air Museum in Virginia Beach, VA. She currently is still called Chuckie after Doc's wife.
Posted by Franklin Poole on June 30,2011 | 05:54 PM
"at the onset of the USAAC fighting either, those first raids in 1942 used other aircraft borrowed from the RAF (Hudson's I think)."
Actually, it were Boston's used.
Thought it was a raid on a 'freshmen target' in the Netherlands. It was named in a book by Ab Anne Jansen, "Sporen aan de hemel"/"Contrails in the sky".
Posted by Arjan Wolters on July 20,2011 | 04:15 PM
your pages were very good .the pictures of f-111 were beautiful. thank you.
Posted by amin on July 28,2011 | 06:19 AM
My brother, Lyman J. Smith was a waist gunner in one of these. He referred to it as "the Sweetheart of the Skies".
I don't know the dates of his duty, but he flew 28 missions
over Germany. One of the crew was Art Schaeffer and he is still living here in Champaign. My brother passed away last year in 2010. I saw the plane that you have when you visited here in Champaign just about a year ago at our municipal airport, Willard.
Posted by robertsam smith on October 11,2011 | 12:51 PM
Does anyone know of the whereabouts of the B-17 Shoo-Shoo Baby?
Posted by roger on June 15,2012 | 12:57 PM
Please let us not forget the efforts of the men and women of the 512th AW at Dover for the 10 year restoration on this aircraft.
Posted by AL on February 15,2013 | 03:11 PM
How the heck did they stay in kneeled position on a mission for such a long time?
Posted by Rick Prowell on March 7,2013 | 02:06 PM
Two years ago I flew on EAA's B17G "Aluminum Overcast": it was probably the most exciting flight I ever had as a passenger. The Fortress is a big airplane, with a huge wing, bus a narrow fuselage, so I had to crawl to reach the cockpit across the bombs bay or to go to the bomber's and navigator's section in the nose of of the plane. The B17 is very noisy too (earplugs are mandatory). I spend 30 minutes enjoying the flight and taking pictures, but my mind was always focused on those boys that flew on the Fortress over Europe in WW2. At high altitude, with oxygen masks, polar temperatures, across the Flak and with Me 109s and Fw 190s trying to kill you. 12,732 B17 where built, 4,735 where lost in action. Each one had a crew of 10. A few survived bailing out. Preserving old warbirds is a way to remember these young aviators.
Giancarlo Riolfo
Torino - Italy
Posted by Giancarlo Riolfo on March 25,2013 | 06:10 AM
While I had nothing to do with the restoration of Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby, I was on hand (1981 or so), for the re-painting of the nose art. I watched Tony Starcer paint as if he was back in war creating the original nose art. I watched in amazement that this older man was recreating his original works. I made quite a few pictures of him in action. Additionally, because the airplane had many owners and missions prior to getting to Dover, many questions were raised on unique finds inside the airplane. I'm not sure if they were ever answered. I'm now completing an almost 35year Air Force career, watching the restoration of Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby was sure one of the highlights.
Lt Col Jeff Wenberg
Posted by Jeff Wenberg on May 6,2013 | 03:04 AM